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Overdrive before or after pre-amp


Vin Venal
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Got a darkglass microtubes head with built in OD channel.

 

If I want more drive, should I run it up front into the amp, or in the effects loop?

 

If I put it in front, does it actually matter what I use, since in theory I'd just be driving the gain circuitry of the amp harder, right? Or does it not work that way with solid state stuff? 🤔

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The effects loop inserts after the preamp and before the power section, unless you have a level on your distortion you will find you can overdrive the amp and get a big volume boost. (It’s not controlled by the amp drive and volume) 
Modulation usually goes into the Fx loop.

Most fx loops are line level not instrument level and if the pedals not designed for it it can make it sound completely different. 

Edited by Bunion
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9 hours ago, Vin Venal said:

If I want more drive,

You'll have to spell out what you mean by that as it could easily mean something other than what you think it does.

 

Can I go ahead and assume you want a gnarlier sound without a whole lot of extra volume when you stomp on it?

 

You should put it in front of the amp.

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Thanks all. Experimentation shows that a big muff sounds much better before the pre-amp, either with or without the overdrive circuit on, and with the overdrive circuit on, the big muff feeds back horribly if it's in the effects loop, so that settles that.

 

I still don't really know if I'm actually hearing the big muff, or just the VMT in the amp being driven harder, but either way it sounds good.

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Best to keep the modulation pedals in the fx loop as they’re not boosts and when you want to add reverb chorus or delay to your sound you want that untouched by the colour you add through your EQ. 
Although there’s nothing wrong with doing that and many do. 
 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'd always say that if you're using a stomp (or anything with bass/mids/treble knobbage), then you need push that through the effects return (or just use a power amp) and allow that to shape your sound.

 

This way, you're not layering the fundamental core (B/M/T) on top of what the pre-stage is already delivering. 

 

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On 05/04/2022 at 22:08, Bunion said:

Most fx loops are line level not instrument level and if the pedals not designed for it it can make it sound completely different. 

Can you expand on this please? it sounds significant but I don't fully grasp it

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11 hours ago, Jaybeevee said:

Can you expand on this please? it sounds significant but I don't fully grasp it

I think it just means more gain.

 

I think that's why my big muff (oo-er) sounds good when it's the first pedal in my chain, but feeds back and makes unholy noises if it's after another OD, or when I tried it in my FX loop.

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There are different levels of voltage used in the chain.
Mic level (the lowest) instrument level (guitars, basses pedals etc,) line level (keyboards, mixing desks and other rack equipment) and speaker level.

A lot of pedals are designed (not all) to take instrument level. 
Pre amps (not the one in your bass) are required to boost the instrument level to line level voltage and as most FX loops are post preamp they push out line level voltage. 
If the pedal isn’t designed to take this voltage it can overdrive and distort. 

Edited by Bunion
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4 minutes ago, Bunion said:

There are different levels of voltage used in the chain.
Mic level (the lowest...), instrument level (guitars, basses pedals etc...), line level (keyboards, mixing desks and other rack equipment...) and speaker level.

A lot of pedals are designed (not all) to take instrument level. 
Pre amps (not the one in your bass) are required to boost the instrument level to line level voltage and as most FX loops are post preamp they push out line level voltage. 
If the pedal isn’t designed to take this voltage it can overdrive and distort. 

 

Just for clarity; my apologies. :friends:

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12 hours ago, Jaybeevee said:

Can you expand on this please? it sounds significant but I don't fully grasp it

The signal coming out of the fx send is all set to make the power stage go big boomboom. It's a much higher voltage than most floor pedals are designed operate on as they expect only as much as a battery powered guitar pickup or another pedal is chucking their way. 

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