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stewblack

Stews Learning Transcription Thread

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2 minutes ago, stewblack said:

I really appreciate everybody's input. Thank you both for taking the time. I literally couldn't do this to save my life this time last year, but now I write out every song I learn and a glance is enough to remind me how it goes. 

However, without guidance I'll just start creating my own musical language and that is not my aim! 

Keep posting then but also PM me them and I’ll look over them properly when I’m back from holiday and ongoing . Happy to help!

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8 minutes ago, dodge_bass said:

Keep posting then but also PM me them and I’ll look over them properly when I’m back from holiday and ongoing . Happy to help!

Classic Dodge - lovely a human. 👍

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On 07/09/2020 at 23:20, cb1 said:

I don’t think it’s been mentioned but it should be in Eb (3 flats)

 

I think someone said they would have chosen a different key, which kind of implied it was  a matter of choice. Is that not right? 

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@dodge_bassif I understand correctly, the second bar, with rests combined and a clear demarcation of crotchets (only crossed by a tie) should look like this. 15996764253852395878673777437054.thumb.jpg.f3b5f0e882e98d075c442ab444ae4ee3.jpg

(Purely rhythmically. I'm aware the notes are all the same in my scribble.) 

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It's clearest if you join together the tails of all notes which fall in the same beat:
 IMG_20200909_201938.jpg.6eb2e4d752be97f229a93f854821d0ad.jpg
 
Personally I like to do the same with rests as well, although not everyone does:

IMG_20200909_201942.jpg.cacb42dd2a46e6679e4820cf4fb62775.jpg

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1 hour ago, stewblack said:

I think someone said they would have chosen a different key, which kind of implied it was  a matter of choice. Is that not right? 

Sorry, that might have been me saying:  "One thing perhaps worth considering is using the key of Db instead of the key of C#"  If so, my wording was too British i.e. it may have read like I was making a suggestion - but it wasn't a suggestion 😀  What I actually meant was: Never use C# major! Always use Db major, because the rule is to choose the key with the fewest accidentals.

I see your Mr Big Stuff chart has six sharps; that is actually F# major.  I think D# major is one of the ugliest keys; I believe it is 5 sharps and 2 double-sharps! The notes of the D# major scale are: D# E# F## G# A# B# C## D#.  Eb is the correct key to use here, as it has only 3 flats: Eb F G Ab Bb C D Eb.

 

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17 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

Sorry, that might have been me saying:  "One thing perhaps worth considering is using the key of Db instead of the key of C#"  If so, my wording was too British i.e. it may have read like I was making a suggestion - but it wasn't a suggestion 😀  What I actually meant was: Never use C# major! Always use Db major, because the rule is to choose the key with the fewest accidentals.

I see your Mr Big Stuff chart has six sharps; that is actually F# major.  I think D# major is one of the ugliest keys; I believe it is 5 sharps and 2 double-sharps! The notes of the D# major scale are: D# E# F## G# A# B# C## D#.  Eb is the correct key to use here, as it has only 3 flats: Eb F G Ab Bb C D Eb.

 

Eb major for sure. D# major DOES NOT EXIST as a key signature so ignore what the rest of his post! 

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47 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

It's clearest if you join together the tails of all notes which fall in the same beat:
 IMG_20200909_201938.jpg.6eb2e4d752be97f229a93f854821d0ad.jpg
 
Personally I like to do the same with rests as well, although not everyone does:

IMG_20200909_201942.jpg.cacb42dd2a46e6679e4820cf4fb62775.jpg

Yup. This. First example is the clearest and is what you’ll get if use Sibelius or something similar. Second one is ok too but not something you see very often - beaming into the rests is extraneous information and not really needed as the rest already tells you how long it is. 

 

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Thank you all so much. 

Another valuable lesson.

@jrixn1 I am very mildly autistic and struggle sometimes to separate the obvious (or most likely) interpretation of an instruction from all the other far less likely to be correct interpretations. So yes I read your post and thought I reckon probably he means I can please myself! 

This of course makes me a royal pain the bum to teach. 

 

Edited by stewblack
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Hope you good people don't mind if I stick on this crotchet - bar - subdivision theme for a little longer until I'm sure it's actually gone in.

I have altered the bar on the left to what I assume is now correct i.e the one on the right.

1095541481_example1.JPG.0c9bd6943dc5e10edff7a670fbab4ae5.JPG

 

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12 minutes ago, stewblack said:

Hope you good people don't mind if I stick on this crotchet - bar - subdivision theme for a little longer until I'm sure it's actually gone in.

I have altered the bar on the left to what I assume is now correct i.e the one on the right.

1095541481_example1.JPG.0c9bd6943dc5e10edff7a670fbab4ae5.JPG

 

I would have been fine but with either but this is quite a simple rhythm.  The second makes it very obvious that the Bb is on the “and” of 3.

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3 minutes ago, Nickthebass said:

I would have been fine but with either but this is quite a simple rhythm.  The second makes it very obvious that the Bb is on the “and” of 3.

Thank you. One of the difficulties I have is knowing if I face a hard and fast rule or a matter of personal preference. I feel as a total beginner I should err on the side of caution

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On 10/09/2020 at 20:45, stewblack said:

Thank you. One of the difficulties I have is knowing if I face a hard and fast rule or a matter of personal preference. I feel as a total beginner I should err on the side of caution

And one of the problems of music notation is that it isn’t always hard and fast (helpfully) and there are often multiple ways to skin a cat. As @Nickthebass says either is fine as it’s a straight forward rhythm. It might come down to your notation software as to which way it comes out. Erring on the side of caution is always good. My main rule is...

”if I was sight-reading this on a gig (I.e never seen it in my life) what would be easier to read...”

...this includes not only rhythmic notation, but actual layout on the page, use of repeats, D.S’s, other structural notes, chord symbols etc etc. 

 

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27 minutes ago, dodge_bass said:

if I was sight-reading this on a gig (I.e never seen it in my life) what would be easier to read...”

Am excellent adage. 

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9 hours ago, stewblack said:

Am excellent adage. 

Yup. The result of having to sight read some truly terrible charts over the years from people who should have known a lot better!

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One other thing I might consider in the hand written rhythm above is a quarter note with a staccato dot above it rather than an eighth/eighth note rest. Technically they are not the same thing (the eighth note is a direction to play the note for an exact length, whereas a staccato quarter note is open to interpretation), so it depends what your are trying to convey. IMHO if it’s not a complex piece or some classical work where it’s required to be very precise, both options end up sounding the same, and a quarter note is easier to read.

Which goes to show that, despite some basic rules, there is quite a bit of leeway in interpretation :)

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On 12/09/2020 at 20:35, dodge_bass said:

My main rule is...

”if I was sight-reading this on a gig (I.e never seen it in my life) what would be easier to read...”

...this includes not only rhythmic notation, but actual layout on the page, use of repeats, D.S’s, other structural notes, chord symbols etc etc. 

 

THIS!! Layout etc is just as important as the rest of the info on the page.

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On the topic, ease of reading, you guys were on my mind during last night's rehearsal. 

I pulled up the chart I'd made of a tune way back when all this started. As we progressed through the song and I became lost and confused I thought, my god this chart is a total mess. 

The thing is I never thought that before, back when I wrote it. I realised that for a total beginner the entire page of any score was a kaleidoscope of bewildering, alien hieroglyphics. Whether it was laid out neatly or not I couldn't tell! 

As more of it starts to make sense, all the 'rules' or accepted practice, become increasingly apparent and important. 

All this is my fault. I started out trying to learn to read music by downloading a score, laboriously working out which notes were being referred to by which dots, and then taking it to a gig 🤦🏼‍♂️ 

Had I learned systematically, from the ground up, things would have made more sense. So thanks again for helping me unpick it and put it back together properly.

Without your input I had just as well have used TAB. 

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Here’s an example of one of my charts:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JUv9mUwF_gYEeZ7vZVZNfaWeT7sbSmKl/view?usp=drivesdk
 

Black Cow by Steely Dan

I try to keep the form/structure/layout as neat as I can. Always favour new sections starting on the left, as opposed to mid-way through a line. A lot easier to find where you are if you get lost, as you can just scan the left side of the page as opposed to every bar. Double bar lines at the end of each ‘section’. Labels of Chorus/Verse/Bridge etc. 
 

I mean I definitely am not an authority on writing charts - I learnt the same way you have. But after doing it for a while you pick up on little tips and tricks that help you - thinking in the way described earlier (what you’d want to be presented with on a gig) is a big help. The aim of reading is to make it easy for the player to play a tune they may never have heard, with little/no rehearsal time. You need just the right amount of information on the page. Not too much to overwhelm the player, but not too little that the player is left in the dark with how to approach a song they’ve never heard.

Feel free to PM me if I can be of any help!

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Just so you know your hard work on this thread hasn't been wasted, here's an example of how I used to write a score. The point being not that it's bad, more that I can see why it's bad.

image.thumb.png.b91d06bbbaeafe2d535964cc57d3cfd3.png

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