Playing in Church.

[Risk101]

So we had our big Christmas service yesterday pm and during the pre service rehearsal it was impossible to hear my bass though my IEM I think because everything else, including choir, drums, electric, acoustic, keys were so loud in front of house.

i ended up borrowing a cheap pair of closed cup over ear headphones, which worked well although I looked a bit stupid !!

I think IEMs have their limitations unless you've for custom moulds for your own ears? I'm using the KSZ10 or something like that!!

[LukeFRC]

26 minutes ago, Risk101 said:

So we had our big Christmas service yesterday pm and during the pre service rehearsal it was impossible to hear my bass though my IEM I think because everything else, including choir, drums, electric, acoustic, keys were so loud in front of house.

i ended up borrowing a cheap pair of closed cup over ear headphones, which worked well although I looked a bit stupid !!

I think IEMs have their limitations unless you've for custom moulds for your own ears? I'm using the KSZ10 or something like that!!

If you look in the iem bible thread it Depends on the seal you get - the tighter the better as you get more low end and can run them quieter.

with my iem I use the triple flange Christmas tree type ones which give a good seal and last ages - time to investigate earbud tips…

[dmc79]

1 hour ago, Risk101 said:

So we had our big Christmas service yesterday pm and during the pre service rehearsal it was impossible to hear my bass though my IEM I think because everything else, including choir, drums, electric, acoustic, keys were so loud in front of house.

i ended up borrowing a cheap pair of closed cup over ear headphones, which worked well although I looked a bit stupid !!

I think IEMs have their limitations unless you've for custom moulds for your own ears? I'm using the KSZ10 or something like that!!

 

I use the Linsoul KZ ZS10 Pro IEMS too. Apart from I think one person who paid himself for very expensive custom moulded IEMs (they are otherwise bought for us by the church), every other singer and musician still uses the Shure SE215 that we started out with. I found them quite unreliable - I had one earpiece cut out randomly, in the end it was happening so frequently that they became unusable. I also had the earpiece of another set break apart just while I was trying to replace an earbud, they are very fragile and you have to be quite delicate with them. Also the cable ear hook was always stiff and would rotate constantly, I just found them very annoying. Another improvement with the ZS10 over the SE215 is that it's a 2-pin connector between the ear pieces and the cable, which means the cable doesn't rotate, where you end up with the ear loop turning out frequently and no longer being behind your ear, which is something that really annoyed me with the Shures. 

 

The ZS10 are way better, especially considering they are half the price of the SE215. For a budget IEM, the ZS10 are a no-brainer. Multi-driver, rich and deep sound, for bass they blow the single driver SE215 out of the water. I play through a Tone Hammer DI with a little drive - from memory the SE215 would struggle with any sort of gentle drive, cab sim, etc, it was the same when I used a VTDI, the ZS10 has no problem coping with this. 

 

Are you using the stock silicone ZS10 earbuds? Whilst they're not too bad, upgrading to foam buds made a big difference to me. The sound isolation and comfort is so much better with the Comply Isolation foam tips - it's worth getting a mixed pack with one set each of the small, medium & large sizes, then order a pack of 3 pairs of whichever size you prefer. Sonicfoam also do foam buds to fit these IEMs, you get a bigger pack, so they are better value, but I'm yet to try them. @LukeFRC just beat me to it, but I believe that the triple flange 'Christmas tree' silicone ones are the best if you want to stay with silicone, but I'm very happy with using foam tips.

 

The only downside to foam tips is they only last so long - in time you'll be able to tell the isolation isn't as good as it was when new, and they will also start to look and feel a bit worn out. But when new and early on, the foam tips give an incredible seal. You can feel it as well as hear it - when you insert them, over the first 20-30 seconds they'll expand to fill your ear, you can hear and feel this happening. Over time when you're not noticing this happening as much, if at all, that's another indication that it's time to replace them. 

 

If you've already got good IEMs (which you have), trying out better tips is a fairly cheap way of making them even better, and giving you the best seal possible. Another popular upgrade on the ZS10 is to replace the cable (the stock one is very cheap and flimsy), I use the 'Tripowin Zonie' 16-core cable, and have the stock one in my bag as a backup. Whilst the cable & earbud upgrades bump up the price, I'd still take the ZS10 with upgrades over the SE215 as they sound so good and seem to be very durable. £40-50 for multi-driver IEMs that sound great for bass, with detachable cable, is very impressive. I've raved to the sound guys about them, I don't see why they would spend £100 on SE215 when the ZS10 are half the price and sound better.

 

I think if you have good tips with a good seal, this should minimise bleed from FOH. We have 2 morning services, and I'm pretty sure that for the second one (the one that's streamed) the FOH volume is set higher due to the increased number of people in the room. I do sometimes notice some bleed - there are times when I can hear and/or feel the bass in the room (we have a sub on each side of the platform too) to the point where it interferes with the bass in my IEMS, but I tend to take this as another sign that I need to break open a new set of foam tips. All this has reminded me that I need to treat myself to a new pair of Comply tips before our pair of Carol services this Sunday. I think I've been using them since Summer, so got around 4 months out of them. For playing 2-3 times a month, 2 services each time, with practice before, and some midweek practices too, I wouldn't expect them to last longer than that, in fact I should have probably replaced them a month ago really. 

 

Our practices have been very efficient, and the sound guy has been wonderful and has put up video footage for us to review after every practice. It's been fantastic to see the improvement every week - on early practices we were somewhat tentative, musically and vocally, as we learned the songs and what we each needed to bring to them. It's been rewarding to see everyone getting more confident with each week that passes, the last 2 practice videos were very encouraging. We've put a fair amount of time into it, so hopefully it all goes well on Sunday.

 

The practice videos were also really useful, as I made notes on things such as what strings / pick I was using, my Tone Hammer settings, etc. At one point I was trying to break in some new nickel rounds, but the videos made me realise I really didn't want the new rounds zing & finger screech for these services, so I went back to my Fender flats that are nicely worn in. I can get away with a fair bit more gain on the THDI with flats, there's just enough growl & a little grind for it to sit well in the mix, and cut through just enough without being obnoxious (the bass came through a bit too aggressively for my liking on last years carol services, with the rather mid forward GHS Pressurewounds on and I guess a bit too much gain on the THDI), and obviously without the finger noise of rounds. If the bass sounds exactly like it did on last nights practice for the services, I'll be very happy. These will be the first carol services I've ever used flats on, I'm really liking the P bass, flats with a pick thing. 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by dmc79

[SimonK]

As an antidote to the IEM thing, we turned the HPF on the subs from 60 down to 40 as wanted a rumbly pipe organ for Hark the Herald - however they forgot to turn it back up again and the bass sounded awesome, albeit I felt it far more than heard it - I dutilfuly turned my HPF off when I realised the potential!

[Risk101]

1 hour ago, dmc79 said:

I use the Linsoul KZ ZS10 Pro IEMS too. Apart from I think one person who paid himself for very expensive custom.........

 

Thanks very much for this - really useful. Yes, I had noticed when pushing the "stock" silicone tips in or holding my finger on the the bass really comes out - I've tried foam before but couldn't get on with it so I'll try Luke's "Christmas tree" suggestion!!

[Risk101]

I left my KZs at church - don't suppose anyone can let me know the diameter for the Tree buds? Or even better post a link !!! There's a good chance I'll get them for next Sunday.

[GoodShowSir]

I think I need to get new foam tips too. My right ear one keeps coming off... inside my ear. Had to a while to get it out again last week...very slowly and gently! 

 

Anyway all to say, I am very interested in what replacement ones people use!

 

I too use the Linsoul KZ ZS10 PRO's, and they are good for the price. But with a full band going, they can not handle certain bass frequencies meaning your high F#'s do sound a little out of tune. I have tried two different pairs and its the same. For that reason I am thinking about getting a more expensive pair with better bass drivers, but not in a rush to spend money. 

Edited 1 hour ago by GoodShowSir

[Owen]

9 minutes ago, GoodShowSir said:

high F#'s 

Bass Police are coming for you. 

[Risk101]

Interesting what you say about notes sounding out of tune! I had exactly that a few weeks back when multiple notes sounded off (yes I had checked the tuning twice!) - so much so that I had to play from looking at the fret position to be confident I was playing the right notes !

 

(yeah intonation was spot on too when checking at home!)