What scales for country?

[Galilee]

Does anyone know what scales I should use for fills and passing notes in country rock type stuff like The Eagles, Lynyrd Skynyrd, etc? Is it just blues scales, or are there special country variants?

[Bilbo]

S'all music, mate. Use them all and take it to a new level..

[The Funk]

Major pentatonic, innit - dropping in minor 3rd as passing tones every now and then.

Edited January 19, 2009 by The Funk

[Galilee]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='385063' date='Jan 19 2009, 03:31 PM']S'all music, mate. Use them all and take it to a new level..[/quote]

Just play anything? I'm sure I'd take it all [b]down[/b] to a new level if I tried that.

[Galilee]

[quote name='The Funk' post='385077' date='Jan 19 2009, 03:43 PM']Major pentatonic, innit - dropping in minor 3rd as passing tones every now and then.[/quote]

Ace, thanks.

[lowdown]

It all fits...
Check out the great Brent Mason on Geeeetar..



Garry

[The Funk]

Bilbo and Garry are right. Follow my advice if you just want to get started and not sound like you're experimenting.

[lowdown]

[quote name='The Funk' post='385118' date='Jan 19 2009, 04:21 PM']Follow my advice if you just want to get started and not sound like you're experimenting.[/quote]

Yep follow the Funks advice.
If you start doing Brent Mason licks at speed on Bass [ when you do, let us know ]
The Line dancing police will have you as a marked man.
And believe me, thats T.R.O.U.B.L.E



Garry

Edited January 19, 2009 by lowdown

[Galilee]

Thanks. I just have 10 songs to learn for an audition and, as they're all pretty similar in construction (3-chord songs, 4-chord songs), I figured I could just chart the chords and make up the walking/filling/passing stuff on the fly using the appropriate scales.

[wateroftyne]

With 3-or-4 chord country, where the song is king, it's easy to fall into the trap of playing the same thing over and over again.

For that reason, you need to know the song inside-out - not just from a bass perspective. Learn the melody , and what the other instruments are doing, and work with those. Pick up on little moments, and embellish them. That's what will set you apart.

Edited January 19, 2009 by wateroftyne

[stevie]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='385188' date='Jan 19 2009, 05:41 PM']With 3-or-4 chord country, where the song is king, it's easy to fall into the trap of playing the same thing over and over again.

For that reason, you need to know the song inside-out - not just from a bass perspective. Learn the melody , and what the other instruments are doing, and work with those. Pick up on little moments, and embellish them. That's what will set you apart.[/quote]

In amongst all the drivel that appears on this forum (including mine), that is a really excellent piece of advice.

[Hoppo75]

[quote name='stevie' post='385331' date='Jan 19 2009, 08:16 PM']In amongst all the drivel that appears on this forum (including mine), that is a really excellent piece of advice.[/quote]

I've played country for best part of 20 years my friend, and this an excellent piece of advice. If you can identify and fill the gaps that are being left by all of the of the other musicians and vocalists, you've nailed it. If you can find it, have a listen to Hal Ketchums 'Tonight we just might fall in love again'. The bassline is the epitomy of that philosophy, and I've seen the bass guy live (Keith Carper, a brilliant player of little reknown)...One of the best lessons I've had the pleasure of watching.

[lowdown]

[quote name='stevie' post='385331' date='Jan 19 2009, 08:16 PM']In amongst all the drivel that appears on this forum (including mine), that is a really excellent piece of advice.[/quote]

To be honest.
That bit of advice should apply to all music,



Garry

Edited January 19, 2009 by lowdown

[wateroftyne]

Thanks all - you're very kind!

It's partly fuelled by lots of threads recently where the emphasis has been on 'what scale do I use for xxxx' and 'what scale would be good for yyyy'.

It juts makes my blood run a little cold... it's like music-by-numbers. There's far more to it than just being armed with 'the right notes'. You have to feel it.

Christ, I'm getting old and miserable.. ha ha.

[The Funk]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='385397' date='Jan 19 2009, 08:57 PM']Thanks all - you're very kind!

It's partly fuelled by lots of threads recently where the emphasis has been on 'what scale do I use for xxxx' and 'what scale would be good for yyyy'.

It juts makes my blood run a little cold... it's like music-by-numbers. There's far more to it than just being armed with 'the right notes'. You have to feel it.

Christ, I'm getting old and miserable.. ha ha.[/quote]

Nah, you're right. But if you've got the feel down and all you're missing is the right notes, then the 'what scale do I use for xxxx' threads can be helpful. It's also a whole lot easier to explain in written words than feel, which is probably why we don't discuss that side of things so much - but feel is the difference between an ok player and an outstanding player.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='385397' date='Jan 19 2009, 08:57 PM']Thanks all - you're very kind!

It's partly fuelled by lots of threads recently where the emphasis has been on 'what scale do I use for xxxx' and 'what scale would be good for yyyy'.

It juts makes my blood run a little cold... it's like music-by-numbers. There's far more to it than just being armed with 'the right notes'. You have to feel it.[/quote]

It's excellent advice, and really should be obvious.

[Galilee]

Thanks for all of that.

I'm not looking to play it 'by numbers' (although, at this stage, getting through the unfamiliar songs is the first priority) it's just that, when I 'feel it', I want to be able to add something simple that's going to fit.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Galilee' post='385712' date='Jan 20 2009, 09:09 AM']Thanks for all of that.

I'm not looking to play it 'by numbers' (although, at this stage, getting through the unfamiliar songs is the first priority) it's just that, when I 'feel it', I want to be able to add something simple that's going to fit.[/quote]

Going slightly off topic here, but I think wateroftyne was talking more about the type of posting in the 'who uses modes' and 'minor scale modes' threads (he can correct me if I'm wrong), in which we were talking about modes used particularly in jazz, where simply 'feeling it' might not cut it if there's complex harmonies going on.

Under those circumstances, you need to know that the selection of notes available to you is likely to change through the chord progression, and how to anticipate it, otherwise all you're going to feel is stupid.

Mind you, it's not really any different from blues, where you have a selection of notes that you can use for the I chord, and you'll switch to an slightly different set of notes for the V chord... it just takes a little longer to get to the point where you're comfortable enough with it to 'just know' what notes are there for you to play, and to be able to just 'feel it'. It all falls under 'knowing the song inside out'.

[mcgraham]

[quote]There's far more to it than just being armed with 'the right notes'. You have to feel it.[/quote]
*engage rant-with-humorous-overtones mode*
Does anyone else feel like it's a no win situation here?
It seems that everytime someone asks a questions such as 'how do you know what to do on this song? what modes do you use? how do you know this will work with that song?' there are two responses of:
(1) 'learn your modes and learn how they work and what sound they make' OR
(2) 'you just need to feel it, it's all about the feel, just play and feel what works'

If they get the 'academic' response first, we get the 'feel' militia in slowly increasing uproar over advocation of actually learning something before trying to play something.
If they get the 'feel' response first, we get the 'academic' rah's poo-pooing and belittling such a *backwards* way of approaching a song.

Firstly, to the feel militia, when people ask such a question they ask [i]what [/i]will work, [i]how[/i] and [i]why[/i], they want a helpful encouraging answer. Simply saying 'you gotta feel it' without even slight regard to theory that would at least point them in the right (or even just useful!) direction and give them at least a starting point with which to 'feel' their way out of a 'rut' is unhelpful and doesn't answer their question at all. This gives them nothing beyond what they already had to begin with.

Secondly, to the academic rah's, when people ask such a question, the same holds; they want a helpful encouraging answer. Making bold assertions about how theory-less players are stumbling around in the dark, followed by reeling off vast quantities of theory that you have amassed doesn't answer their question any more than the above approach, and may in fact be likely to discourage the average player when they see how much there is to know. Linking such bold assertions to such theory makes it seem impenetrable and doesn't actually tell the player anything useful.

We need to marry the science of theory with the art of music to be good musicians. If you don't know something or haven't happened across something, you can't use it; you simply can't use what you don't have. Equally so just because you know something doesn't automatically mean you know how to use it. The two are inextricably linked and to advocate one over the other and belittle the other as arrogant or ignorant is just the pot calling the kettle black.

Mark
*end rant-with-humorous-overtones mode*

[wateroftyne]

I get your point - really, I do.

The OP's question was:

[quote]Does anyone know what scales I should use for fills and passing notes in country rock type stuff[/quote]

While I don't want to sound like I'm 'picking' on the OP - I'm not, I'm just making a general obvservation, and of course he/she has to play the right notes - something freaks me out about the convenience of the question. It's just all very... 'McDonalds'.

I dunno.. I'm not getting my point across very well.

If someone knows what I'm rambling about, please chip in and tell me what I mean.

Edited January 20, 2009 by wateroftyne

[mcgraham]

[quote]It's just all very... 'McDonalds'[/quote]

I totally agree. It's sickening that the most learned people often seem to be the most stale musically. I'm not against you there.

What you appear to be saying is 'don't take your ear out of the equation', albeit with more a slightly more cynical spin on things Feel free to correct me if you think that's not quite right. Anyway, whether you're saying this or not...

... I am definitely saying this. All these bits of theory are highly useful, to doubt that is ignorance. But please, for goodness sake, don't take your ear out of the equation. Be sure to listen to what you're playing and figure out the useful bits, and where those bits are useful.

Mark

Edited January 20, 2009 by mcgraham

[The Funk]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='386185' date='Jan 20 2009, 02:57 PM']While I don't want to sound like I'm 'picking' on the OP - I'm not, I'm just making a general obvservation, and of course he/she has to play the right notes - something freaks me out about the convenience of the question. It's just all very... 'McDonalds'.

I dunno.. I'm not getting my point across very well.

If someone knows what I'm rambling about, please chip in and tell me what I mean.[/quote]

Well, it [i]is[/i] very convenient to be able to ask the question and get a simple answer. Isn't that the whole point of message boards?

Of course, just knowing that you could play the notes from the major pentatonic scale over some country tunes doesn't make you a country player. I think that was your point and everyone on here agrees with you.

EDIT: Actually, I think you had another point, which was that if everyone approaches music the exact same way, everyone will end up sounding the same. Having heard some ex-music college guys, you're not wrong to be worried about that.

Edited January 20, 2009 by The Funk

[mcgraham]

[quote]Of course, just knowing that you could play the notes from the major pentatonic scale over some country tunes doesn't make you a country player. I think that was your point and everyone on here agrees with you.[/quote]
+1

[quote]EDIT: Actually, I think you had another point, which was that if everyone approaches music the exact same way, everyone will end up sounding the same. Having heard some ex-music college guys, you're not wrong to be worried about that.[/quote]
Touche...
I don't quite agree, but I can't deny there are a lot of immensely knowledgable but dire musicians out there.

Mark

[Eight]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='386202' date='Jan 20 2009, 03:10 PM']I totally agree. It's sickening that the most learned people often seem to be the most stale musically.[/quote]
*Seem* is the operative word. As in "seem to you".

From what I can see, (and bass seems no different from any other part of music in this respect), most musicians are stale. Law of averages in a way - or perhaps the definition of average. Some choose to study large amounts of theory. Others choose not.

My opinion - in music, the end justifies the means. And mediocrity will still be mediocre whether the writer is an encyclopedia of music theory or not. Genius will be still be genius, and pants will still be pants.

Each to their own.

[Galilee]

Give me a break, it's not McDonalds.

I just have 10 songs to learn in a week (plus full time work, family, etc.) in a style of music I've never really even listened to, let alone played. I'm not planning to churn out shed loads of mass-produced country songs using major pentatonics with a few minor thirds thrown in, I just want to prepare for the audition in the easiest way possible.