Frank Blank Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 I know nothing about preamps. The duo I currently play in is just about to start gigging regularly and most, if not all, the gigs will DI the bass straight into the desk, I’ll be using my fretless Rob Allen Mouse, so... a) do I need a pre amp for gigs? b) do I need one generally just sitting atop my amp looking swish? c) really, in lay person lingo, what do they do? d) if I do need one, which? e) ...or can I just have a Grace Felix please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 a) possibly b) not sure you need it on top of your amp.. more like you won’t need your amp at all.. c) Think of it as the Preamp section of your amp And thus gain, eq, compression etc but no power amp or cab - they usually have a DI out so you can colour/shape your tone and model depending add some amp/cab simulation without the amp and cab before it goes straight to foh and comes back to you via monitors. d) that’s like asking “I need a bass - which one?” You need to set a budget and then ask what sort of sound you like. Sansamp make some good ones, as do many of the other popular brands. Do you want simple (like the MXR DI) Or complex like the GK Plex? Complex just means more things to shape your tone in the absence of an amp and cab e) Isn’t that a cat food? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cattytown Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 @Bridgehouse is pretty much spot on. a) Do you need one? If you are happy with the tone you are getting no, if you aren't maybe. b) people are doing different things with pres. If you already have a traditional bass amp, and are happy with your sound, as per a) you don't need one anyway. Some are using pedal based pres to put their tone on the floor in front of them, and then using some form of power amp. c/d: I have nothing to add e) nice pre, but may not be what you need - they can do a lot. you pay for it though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 There's already a pre-amp built into your bass amplifier. If it's not doing it for you then you probably have the wrong amplifier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, BigRedX said: There's already a pre-amp built into your bass amplifier. If it's not doing it for you then you probably have the wrong amplifier. Thanks, I didn't know that. I am perfectly happy with the sound from the amp, in fact it's perfect. The more I discuss this the less it seems I need one. Still wondering about live though when most of the places we play just DI the instruments without any backline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 31 minutes ago, Frank Blank said: Thanks, I didn't know that. I am perfectly happy with the sound from the amp, in fact it's perfect. The more I discuss this the less it seems I need one. Still wondering about live though when most of the places we play just DI the instruments without any backline. If you find a Preamp you like and build a mini board (I have a pedaltrain nano) then you effectively get the Preamp section of your amp as a board mounted pedal that has a DI out for connection to Front of House Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 I have no idea what a mini board is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Just now, Frank Blank said: I have no idea what a mini board is? Mini pedalboard - google pedaltrain nano You could just use a Preamp pedal on the floor but I put mine on one of these with a tuner and wireless receiver with one power supply (so only one plug) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Here’s mine: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) - Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 58 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said: What amp are you using, Frank? Some can be used without a cab, essentially as a preamp/DI box. I’m using an AER Basic Performer which (as I found out thanks to @BigRedX) has a preamp onboard. The more I ignorantly stumble around this subject the more I think it’s a good di box Ineed because a lot of the venues that we are likely to play will usually di the bass without backline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Just now, Frank Blank said: I’m using an AER Basic Performer which (as I found out thanks to @BigRedX) has a preamp onboard. The more I ignorantly stumble around this subject the more I think it’s a good di box Ineed because a lot of the venues that we are likely to play will usually di the bass without backline. A good DI/Preamp will give you control over your sound without having to lug the amp to do the same job tbh. Plus... and I think this is a biggie - having a Preamp/DI box in your bass bag is a good reserve/backup if your amp goes pop... Plus plus... they are great for recording directly into a desk as well to give you some tone shaping before it hits the desk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) - Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 28 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said: A good DI/Preamp will give you control over your sound without having to lug the amp to do the same job tbh. Plus... and I think this is a biggie - having a Preamp/DI box in your bass bag is a good reserve/backup if your amp goes pop... Plus plus... they are great for recording directly into a desk as well to give you some tone shaping before it hits the desk Thanks for this @Bridgehouse, this is exactly the kind of information I’m looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said: Ah, being a combo that isn't such an option! I think AER do make a preamp, although I can't say whether it would be entirely similar to the pre in the combo you have. Might be worth a glance to see whether it has the features you use. The Colouriser? Colorizer more likely, I suppose! Thanks for this, I didn’t realise that AER made a preamp so taking a look right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I'd probably say the LR Baggs Stadium Bass DI will do the closest job to the AER - or maybe the Fishman Multi-instrument one. (platinum?) Other ones to consider: GK Plex (lots of tonal options) - Sansamp Bass DI (industry staple) - MXR (tends to be the least "coloured" tone) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmachine2112 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Hiho I never leave home without one. Handy for doing gigs without an amp going FOH with a bit in the monitor,great for recording.If your amp goes down,plug it into PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 Ok my ignorance is beginning to glow like Sirius now. Having consulted the Rob Allen site my bass has a Fishman preamp on board, what (if any) is the difference between an on board preamp and an external one? I know I'm stupid but I can set fire to farts on order and chew gum whilst playing Peaches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Frank Blank said: Ok my ignorance is beginning to glow like Sirius now. Having consulted the Rob Allen site my bass has a Fishman preamp on board, what (if any) is the difference between an on board preamp and an external one? I know I'm stupid but I can set fire to farts on order and chew gum whilst playing Peaches... *trying really hard not to come across as sarcasm* An on-board Preamp is on board your bass, and an external one is, um, external... No, really - there might be a few extras on the external like compression, drive, DI out etc but they are essentially both doing the same job - taking your passive signal and amping it with active electronics - allowing you to shape the tone with EQ etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 Just now, Bridgehouse said: *trying really hard not to come across as sarcasm* An on-board Preamp is on board your bass, and an external one is, um, external... No, really - there might be a few extras on the external like compression, drive, DI out etc but they are essentially both doing the same job - taking your passive signal and amping it with active electronics - allowing you to shape the tone with EQ etc. Feel free to be sarcastic, my musical background and history originated in punk so it was a case of borrow an amp, plug in, turn up, even the most basic technical stuff is all very new to me! I suppose I am surprised the RA Mouse has a preamp on board simply because it has so few controls, only a volume pot on the front and a 'passive high trim control' that you adjust with a screwdriver. Given that lack of on board tone shaping and also potentially going into a lot of gig situations where there is no backline (acoustic duo, acoustic clubs) I suppose I'm going to be more in control with my own preamp/D.I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 9 hours ago, Frank Blank said: Feel free to be sarcastic, my musical background and history originated in punk so it was a case of borrow an amp, plug in, turn up, even the most basic technical stuff is all very new to me! I suppose I am surprised the RA Mouse has a preamp on board simply because it has so few controls, only a volume pot on the front and a 'passive high trim control' that you adjust with a screwdriver. Given that lack of on board tone shaping and also potentially going into a lot of gig situations where there is no backline (acoustic duo, acoustic clubs) I suppose I'm going to be more in control with my own preamp/D.I. What sort of pickups are in the mouse? Is there a Piezo element? If so, that will explain the Preamp as you need something active onboard to change the impedance of the piezo output tonsomething usable by a traditional bass amplifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Bridgehouse said: What sort of pickups are in the mouse? Is there a Piezo element? If so, that will explain the Preamp as you need something active onboard to change the impedance of the piezo output tonsomething usable by a traditional bass amplifier From the Rob Allen Website... Mouse 30, Mb-2 and Deep4/5 models have a piezo pickup under the saddle in the bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 28 minutes ago, Frank Blank said: From the Rob Allen Website... Mouse 30, Mb-2 and Deep4/5 models have a piezo pickup under the saddle in the bridge. Yep - there we go. You need an onboard preamp to deal with the high impedance output of a piezo pickup and make it usable in most amplification situations. The output from your mouse will be "regular" after the preamp. A nice floor mounted Preamp/DI will let you do some tone changing and tweaking - given it's a piezo I'd go for a nice clean sounding one like the LR Baggs Stadium to get the most out of the piezo sound - you can use it to cut out some of the really high frequency noise you sometimes get with a piezo or add some mids back in, which are often missing in a Piezo as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said: Yep - there we go. You need an onboard preamp to deal with the high impedance output of a piezo pickup and make it usable in most amplification situations. The output from your mouse will be "regular" after the preamp. A nice floor mounted Preamp/DI will let you do some tone changing and tweaking - given it's a piezo I'd go for a nice clean sounding one like the LR Baggs Stadium to get the most out of the piezo sound - you can use it to cut out some of the really high frequency noise you sometimes get with a piezo or add some mids back in, which are often missing in a Piezo as well. Cool, thanks @Bridgehouse, this is precisely the kind of info I'm after. I kind of thought this to be the case but had I written the above asking if it were correct someone would have said Don't be stupid, the Piezo is for washing the carpet and a preamp/DI is a disco move from the 70s. There is something about the Fishman Platinum Pro that is drawing me in though, caught in tractor beam! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Frank Blank said: Cool, thanks @Bridgehouse, this is precisely the kind of info I'm after. I kind of thought this to be the case but had I written the above asking if it were correct someone would have said Don't be stupid, the Piezo is for washing the carpet and a preamp/DI is a disco move from the 70s. There is something about the Fishman Platinum Pro that is drawing me in though, caught in tractor beam! I've not tried the platinum pro, but it would certainly be worth a go - as it's main usage is usually piezo style pickups anyway. I've got piezo saddles in my Shuker Fretless, (as well as a mag under the board). John East did me a preamp for it with a separate piezo pre and then his 4 knob standard EQ. The piezo saddles go through the piezo pre and then on into the main preamp for eq etc. What's interesting is that John's preamp has a treble roll off on it as the main control, to help shape the piezo sound and get rid of some quack - it works a treat. I would imagine the that the platinum pro may do a similar job tbh (just on the floor rather than onboard the bass) a bit like the LR Baggs would do too. Knowing it's a piezo, I'd avoid the valve based preamp pedals, and the ones that have drive on them, and stick to something that's centred around good quality EQ'ing and gain/output control. Ironically, I also think the HX Stomp would do a good job with this bass as well, as my Helix does a cracking job of getting a good sound out of my piezo saddles as well.. I've learned too much about piezo's on bass after having the Shuker - more than anyone should know in one lifetime I reckon Edited October 17, 2018 by Bridgehouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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