NA(s)D wohooo (a fair bit of Ashdown content)

[Merton]

[quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1440056462' post='2847834']
ok mate, I shall wait for your review. At the moment I'm pairing the LB30 with a Trace Elliot 15" cab. Nice sounding but lack abit of volume. I will probably need to run 2x Trace cab to get good volume but that would be a pain to transport lol.
[/quote]

Well the CTM30/LB30 is an epic amp as you know.

Through the Super Compact (1x12) it sounds big and has that modern bite.
Through the Retro Two10 the vibe is definitely more vintage, but it's beautifully even and polite. Where the SC barks as the valves go into overdrive, the Retro Two10 gets nasty in a more refined manner. It still snarls and I have to say it sounds glorious but it isn't so "shouty" if that makes sense?
I honestly felt quite tempted to look into switching out my SCs for the Two10s.
I reckon the LB30 and Two10 are a match made in heaven based on the little experimentation we did yesterday. I'd be interested to hear Stew's and Ewan's views too though

Edited September 11, 2015 by Merton

[Huge Hands]

I think Merton summed it up pretty well from last night's trial.

I felt the simplest summation we came up with was - if you want hi-fi - go for the Super Compact, if you want a bit of vintage warmth, go for the 210. I'm sure Alex would roll his eyes at that comment and say "that is exactly what they are meant to be". Glad we confirmed it! I would add to that that I don't think my Retros add [i]that[/i] much warmth - not like the famed "wooly" sound that everyone reckoned Ashdown were famous for (I like that sound btw).

I'd probably agree that the valve head sounded better with the 2x10, certainly for Merton's tone which was a lot more aggressive that mine would ever be (nothing wrong with that!)

Just to clarify with yesterday's test: My Retro 2x10s are the 4ohm version which meant that Merton could only trial one cab with his heads.

Until recently, I was running both cabs with one each plugged separately per output channel on my Ashdown LG1000. I loved the rig, but was looking for a backup head that could handle either a 2 ohm load or run 2 channels like the Ashdown, and hadn't seen any LGs for sale recently. After some timely and kind advice from Ewan, I splashed out on a Carvin B1000 which can run at 2ohm.

For me, with the Carvin, that rig is now a monster and will probably give me all the volume and tone options I will ever need (I'm not that adventurous) - from quiet gigs with the one cab, up to a big stage with the whole lot cranked. I personally feel like I have found my holy grail of rigs now, even though I'm sure it won't be to everyone's taste. Sorry to hijack the Ashdown thread by the way, I still rate my LG1000 where many didn't!

Stew

[Merton]

Nice one cheers Stew - your Carvin head was very impressive I have to say. Tons of power

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1441973896' post='2863401']
Nice one cheers Stew - your Carvin head was very impressive I have to say. Tons of power
[/quote]

I agree. Although the LG1000 claimed to output a similar power per channel at 4ohm that both add up to what the Carvin says it does at 2 ohm, the Carvin definitely feels a lot louder and seems to make the Retros come alive more. Then again, as there was horse dancing around on the M23, being late meant I didn't get time to compare the two in the same environment to test that theory like I'd have liked to. Maybe next time!

[LewisK1975]

[quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1441973656' post='2863394']
I personally feel like I have found my holy grail of rigs now
[/quote]

Righto . I think its fairly safe to say as both Bass players, and men, we are never truly happy LOL!

[eude]

I can only agree with Martin and Stew.
Retro 210 - Vintagey.
Compact - More hifi(y).

I quite liked the sound of both of them in different ways, but I think the Compact would be more "me". The CTM-30 is gorgeous though, and incredibly well made too. If I could afford one, I'd have ordered one this morning.

One big thing I noted last night was the output of the Compact. Running both my 1x10 cabs, at 4 Ohms total, was actually quieter than a single 8 Ohm Compact with the amp settings all the same.
That was quite a surprise!

Eude

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1441971510' post='2863368']
Well the CTM30/LB30 is an epic amp as you know.

Through the Super Compact (1x12) it sounds big and has that modern bite.
Through the Retro Two10 the vibe is definitely more vintage, but it's beautifully even and polite. Where the SC barks as the valves go into overdrive, the Retro Two10 gets nasty in a more refined manner. It still snarls and I have to say it sounds glorious but it isn't so "shouty" if that makes sense?
I honestly felt quite tempted to look into switching out my SCs for the Two10s.
I reckon the LB30 and Two10 are a match made in heaven based on the little experimentation we did yesterday. I'd be interested to hear Stew's and Ewan's views too though
[/quote]

This is quite a useful report.

Although i like my RT10, and i definitely need to give it a few gigs, it sounds like i might need a SC instead. I find the vintage tone a bit too vintage for me, although that might just be because of what ive been used to. The deep low end is taking a bit of getting used to so far. I also miss the sparkle im used to, although ive gone and got a VTBass DI to liven things up a bit. I do love the extended low end, its great actually hearing a low C clearly, although im back to 4 sting this week :-).

The SC seems to be more what im used to judging by your's and Eudes posts, and i think this might be my next cab

[Merton]

Well we're planning another little get together when Ewan's new ACG arrives in a month or so, you should join us this time

[JTUK]

Judging by people definition of vintage on these pages, describing any cab as such is like the kiss of death.

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1441974367' post='2863411']
Righto . I think its fairly safe to say as both Bass players, and men, we are never truly happy LOL!
[/quote]

I disagree - at least until the next BC bandwagon I can jump on appears

It was also worth noting that I bought my Retro 210s to alleviate a problem where I tore a muscle in my back carrying my heavy old Ashdown combo/cabs, so I needed something a lot lighter.

I thought they were really light but actually felt quite heavy compared to Merton's Super Compact cabs.

Not enough to worry me, but might be a consideration for others who are thinking of buying one or the other.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Huge Hands

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1441976795' post='2863448']
Judging by people definition of vintage on these pages, describing any cab as such is like the kiss of death.
[/quote]

Not for me. That was what I was looking for......but I know what you mean.

[Merton]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1441976795' post='2863448']
Judging by people definition of vintage on these pages, describing any cab as such is like the kiss of death.
[/quote]
Not sure I've read anything like that - maybe I have different perspective though?!

Personally loved the Retro Two10 almost as much as my SCs

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1441976795' post='2863448']
Judging by people definition of vintage on these pages, describing any cab as such is like the kiss of death.
[/quote]

In this case its spot on, although i believe the "retro" is getting dropped from the name soon. its definitely got that old school sound. A bit broken up, but in a smooth way, definitely not "woolly" Ashdown though ;-). It has top end, but i dont think you will really get a horrible tinny tone out of it, no matter how hard you try.

I had a bass player come in from the next studio to ask to borrow a lead (bass player eh :-), he said he could hear the bass through the walls (they aren't that thick) and loved using that stack in the corner. I pointed out i wasn't using the 4x12 and large head, but the small rig sitting next to it. He was very impressed and said he was getting one. Never seen him down there since so i have no idea if he did or not.

Mine is the lightest cab ive ever owned, even lighter than my MAG combo (by a lot). I wouldnt mind if it was heavier, although not too much. Picking up my 1212L i can feel a huge difference, and thats a neo cab as well.

[JTUK]

The point is that if you read thru that other thread and get some defintions of vintage for example... I don't find the term complimentary.

I tend not to use 'vintage' along as a term but will add 'vibe' to it but I'd never think anything 'wooly' is any useful sound anyway.

The problem..as I see it...is that to some people it means such and such... and then they deride wooly as a tone goal..

I can't quite reconcile what people hear or what they want... but if I cross ref that with typical bass sounds I hear in pubs..I'm not sure I want to, tbh.

So..if vintage is wooly... who'd want it ..and in what context..?

I spend my life getting away from wooly... for sure..!!

[dave_bass5]

My new band are doing a lot of 60,70's covers, so in my mind getting a cab with a vintage vibe made sense. And it works a treat.
On the flip side it's maybe not the ideal tone for me, even though it fits the songs and overal tone of the band.
So I dont feel I made a mistake, just that it will take a bit of getting used to, and I may decide I can't get used to it.

it's definitly not woolly though, it's more a tone that you would get from old speaker cabs rather than a modern, fairly neutral tone.
Definitly not something you would like John.

[Merton]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1441989087' post='2863622']
The point is that if you read thru that other thread and get some defintions of vintage for example... I don't find the term complimentary.

I tend not to use 'vintage' along as a term but will add 'vibe' to it but I'd never think anything 'wooly' is any useful sound anyway.

The problem..as I see it...is that to some people it means such and such... and then they deride wooly as a tone goal..

I can't quite reconcile what people hear or what they want... but if I cross ref that with typical bass sounds I hear in pubs..I'm not sure I want to, tbh.

So..if vintage is wooly... who'd want it ..and in what context..?

I spend my life getting away from wooly... for sure..!!
[/quote]

Fair comment! The Retro Two10 is definitely not wooly

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1441989087' post='2863622']

So..if vintage is wooly... who'd want it ..and in what context..?

I spend my life getting away from wooly... for sure..!!
[/quote]

I think this planet would be pretty boring if we all liked the same thing. Both Martin and Ewan were playing some great stuff through their and my cabs, but I didn't really like the sound they were going for. That doesn't mean I thought they were wrong, or terrible, it just wasn't for me.

I would imagine that they didn't like my kind of sound too much either! I'm probably one of the closest to a "wooly" fan that you'll meet, but I don't like that term. I call my fave sound "no teeth" or "gummy" because I don't like spanky, trebly over driven tones. Then again, I'm unlikely to join a punk/metal band! However, I still like it to feel tight and not just one big low end mush which is what wooly implies to me.

I told Alex what I like and he suggested the Two10 as he said it was not designed as a true flat response to aim for the vintage tones. I think he was spot on. Perhaps instead of "vintage" we should use "warmth". As Alex had predicted, having being used to my cabs I thought the Super Compacts sounded a little light on the low end for my tastes - but I could tell they had the flatter and more accurate frequency response that many "audio purists" would prefer.

I was always one of those people that would keep the loudness button pressed on my home stereo, so that probably explains it!

[JTUK]

Since we are up for discussion..... here are some more anomalies or just plain muddled thinking.. IMO, of course.

Bass players want a certain sound.. what is the driver here..?? Likely the tone they like or certainly end up with is...'helpful' or 'forgiving'.
This means the one they can play with.....however, it comes with a kick,..!! it sounds less defined... it lacks character..but we'll call that subjective
and move on. This sound is already into compromise territory, you can't hear it until you raise the cab to your ears.... and no one else can hear it either
as from about 2 mtrs away it is buried by other sounds.... bloody gtrs..!! What you can't hear unless it is right next to your ears is what the audience can't hear as they are even further away from the source. But hey, here is an idea, you want the best clean sound you think is out there... but you want to run effects through it as well... then you put flats on the bass and you ran them in 3 yrs ago.

And you still can't hear...so, you eventually decide that something that will cut through the mix is very middy...you don't like it but you can hear it... it sounds a bit sh** but you hope the other sounds cover up that little thing...and you can hear it but you'd rather others don't..?? but hey, it sits well in the mix..

Sound like anyone you know...?? you've got more problems than you think and you are in a spiral of searching for a sound but you can't quite settle on one that works.

Maybe..??

[Huge Hands]

I'm not sure if that reply was aimed at me directly, or trying to start a wider discussion, but no, it doesn't sound like me.

If it was aimed at me, you're making a lot of assumptions that in my opinion are incorrect. They might be correct for you, when you've tried that, but I can't think of any gig where I've wildly changed the tone, other than when I felt the music needed it - it was nothing to do with cutting through. Yes, I've had problems with piano players left hands, but that was sorted by coordinating notes and calming down their boomy sound, I didn't need to suddenly become all trebly to get out front past them.

I think we may have to agree to disagree with each other on this one. I don't think my Retro 210 rig is overly coloured, it's just a little warmer than flat. If I wanted flat hi fi then I'm sure Alex would have steered me towards the Compacts. I still thought the Compacts were lovely last night, but I preferred mine. That is my choice, and if I'm stupid, then so be it. It's my choice and not yours, and I will let the bands I play with judge me on that choice.

P.S. I have studied and worked in the Pro audio industry including being a sound engineer for over 20 years. I think by now I'm experienced enough to know what sounds good for my tastes and works well in the way I want to use it. Even so, I wouldn't dream of telling you your sound or rig was wrong - I would just make my own decision as to whether I would like it for myself or not. The way you're talking, I'm guessing I probably wouldn't, but that's all good - each to their own!

[JTUK]

No, wasn't directed at you.... but it is the very confused thinking that abounds round here, IMO, of course.

Such a common theme in threads... and a source of major frustration, as well, but it still crops up time and time again.
My point is that some people know something is wrong but they never find out what..so they never fix it.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1442055524' post='2864096']
My point is that some people know something is wrong but they never find out what..so they never fix it.
[/quote]

That definitely applies to me and my 1212L. Its the one thing i never really changed, while everything around it was and i was still not happy. Im now hearing my gear closer to what i have wanted, although its still not quite there.
Better than it has been for the past 4-5 years though.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1441976492' post='2863443']
Well we're planning another little get together when Ewan's new ACG arrives in a month or so, you should join us this time
[/quote]

I expect i will have sold my RT10 by then :-(.

Had another rehearsal last night, this time with the VTBass as well to liven things up, and it sounded much better, but this got me thinking that im now forcing the cab to produce a brighter tone, which my 1212L already did.

Love the cab for what it does to the low end, and on a lot of songs its just perfect, but i think ill need to go back to my 1212L for a while and re evaluate things. I'd love to stick with Barefaced though and i expect a SC will be on the cards later.