BigRedX Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1390398648' post='2344923'] Also available as a standalone unit - and one I'd recommend to ever guitarist and engineer. Price v performance, punches well above its weight. [/quote] As I said, from personal experience, you really need to be using a very good mic and be in a great sounding room before mic'ing the cab in the studio is a better idea the using the Red Box DI output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='LeftyJ' timestamp='1390400880' post='2344983'] Are we talking about recording or live use? On stage, I usually just use my amp's DI-out, and if I can I will also mic my cab because a mic captures the tube drive of my Ampeg preamp in a much nicer way. In the studio, I like to have choice so I generally take both a DI in front of my amp, the DI out of my amp, and a mic too if I can. My bass directly through a DI into the mixing desk provides a nice clean foundation with clear and well-defined lows for low-end push. Then I take the DI out of my amp for 'my' tone. And preferably a mic too because the tube drive of my Ampeg just sounds nicer through some good bass speakers with a mic in front In my experience, most live sound techs are lazy and just want a good DI signal to work with. [/quote] Sorry, not talking live use. Just for plugging into mixer and recording on garageband. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1390416576' post='2345267'] Sorry, not talking live use. Just for plugging into mixer and recording on garageband. [/quote] OK. Then put a mic on one of the speakers and DI direct from the bass. The mic records the sound you want to use and the DI from the bass is the purest signal possible in case you change your mind and can use it to re-amp either with your amp or with plug-ins, instead of having to play the part again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 [quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1390402937' post='2345014'] nothing to do with the sound of a band dude i've already explained why mic'ing a bass cab on a small stage is a bad idea [/quote] how small is small tho? andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonjuice Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 slash's guitar is Di'd. Fact (It is also mic'd but primarily di'd) Palmer Di's inbetween head and cab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonjuice Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Also, fwiw at a big gig 3 or 4 bass channels are common bass di pre:- (straight from the bass/clean) bass di post:-(after fx and tweaking, quite often out the head, but not always.) bass mic (on the cab) bass mic 2 (on a second cab if 2 amps are used, one clean and one dirty for example) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 [quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1390432586' post='2345526'] how small is small tho? andy [/quote] i can't really give a specific size but the idea is to get more the majority of the signal coming through the mic to be bass rather than other stage noise which won't happen in a venue where the bass amp is sat right next to the drum kit or another amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 apologies to the OP by the way this thread seems to have strayed a little from the intended purpose for recording a plugging your bass straight into the desk is fine and you will get a useable recording from it however as BRX said better results can be had by mixing a straight desk signal with a mic on your bass amp to find the sound you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftyJ Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1390429940' post='2345493'] OK. Then put a mic on one of the speakers and DI direct from the bass. The mic records the sound you want to use and the DI from the bass is the purest signal possible in case you change your mind and can use it to re-amp either with your amp or with plug-ins, instead of having to play the part again. [/quote] This [quote name='roonjuice' timestamp='1390433778' post='2345541'] slash's guitar is Di'd. Fact (It is also mic'd but primarily di'd) Palmer Di's inbetween head and cab [/quote] Those Palmer units are awesome. My band doesn't always use cabs on-stage, but we do like to keep our own sound when playing live, no matter how big the venue is and how much we can lug, so one of our guitarists hooks up his Mesa Mk IV to a 19" Palmer power soak / DI unit, and it's awesome. It's got some great and very useful variable tone filters to enhance the sound to your liking, and it truly sounds very close to his guitar tone through a good cabinet (in his case, a Mesa Road King 4x12). I would never record with it, but for live DI'ing it's awesome and very useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The "lazy" or "stuck in his ways" sound engineer always comes up when this is discussed. When a sound engineer is working a multi-band bill he'll have very little time to prepare individual solutions for each band's preferred tone and usually have a small window for soundchecks. Invariably, compromises have to be made and often the best thing to do is to follow a tried and tested method that you know you can get a good result from in that room and with the gear you are working with. Sound engineers don't mic the guitar and DI the bass out of apathy or laziness. Believe it or not we'd like the band to sound good too, since that's what we're paid for. I'll usually give a band the option to take a box or a line out from the amp, if they're a decent player with decent gear you'll get a good sound from either and amp failures on stage are relatively rare. If I worked long term with a single band I'd tweak my working methods to get the best out of them but that is a luxury and not one that your house engineer at a typical local venue can generally afford. We ARE on the same side as you guys, you know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's not so much the attitudes of the PA engineer that I'm concerned about. IME most are perfectly happy to take a post EQ DI from my amp, and I'm happy that this is a good compromise that gets as close as possible to the sound coming out of the speakers in my rig and convenience for on-stage separation on change-over times between bands on most of the gigs that we do. What does concern me is the "lie back and take it" attitude that some of my fellow bassist seem to have to the fact that some engineers seem to want to take the DI directly from the bass irrespective of how important or not the other elements in the bass signal chain might be (although this is something that I have NEVER come across in my 35 years of playing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1390484610' post='2345903'] What does concern me is the "lie back and take it" attitude that some of my fellow bassist seem to have to the fact that some engineers seem to want to take the DI directly from the bass irrespective of how important or not the other elements in the bass signal chain might be (although this is something that I have NEVER come across in my 35 years of playing). [/quote] That's a fair point. One thing that never ceases to surprise me (as someone who wears both bassist and sound tech hats) is just how many bassists there are out there who don't give much consideration at all to it. I've been happy with just a feed direct from the bass when that has been a suitable sound (more often than not, if I'm honest) and worked out a more appropriate route when it's been required, but I've worked with guys at various levels who just don't seem remotely interested in where their tone comes from so long as its loud and bassy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 As an engineer I always prefer to DI the amp, if it has that option. As a bassist I tend to go with the engineer's preference because I know how stressful a job it can be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 [quote name='mike257' timestamp='1390486231' post='2345931'] That's a fair point. One thing that never ceases to surprise me (as someone who wears both bassist and sound tech hats) is just how many bassists there are out there who don't give much consideration at all to it. I've been happy with just a feed direct from the bass when that has been a suitable sound (more often than not, if I'm honest) and worked out a more appropriate route when it's been required, but I've worked with guys at various levels who just don't seem remotely interested in where their tone comes from so long as its loud and bassy! [/quote] Ever since I got my first decent bass rig (i.e. one that wasn't simply any old amp and any old speaker(s)) my whole signal path has been combined with the amp (normally in some complex rack system) and so the only practical place to take a DI that includes all the effects and other signal processing that I am using would be post EQ on the amp. Ideally it would be a mic on one of the cabs, but I realise how difficult this makes live sound separation and I know from experience that my cabs add the least amount of coloration to the bass signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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