Annoying Twit Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I've never seen this before. There are unbranded basses floating around, but I've never seen a catalogue with them. Why would a company do that? [url="http://www.ibanez.co.jp/anniversary/expansion.php?cat_id=2&now=1"]http://www.ibanez.co...?cat_id=2&now=1[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) Because the various brands/exporters/distributors use the manufacturers stock photos. Edit: if you flick back through the Japcrap thread you'll doubtless find Jon referring to this. Edited January 7, 2014 by Musky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom in Dorset Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Shops can brand them themselves, it's called a "stencil line" , buy enough of them and we'll put on any name you like. A lot of budget brands are done this way, particularly stuff associated with one retailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 What they said! Hoshino Gakki (parent company of Cimar & Ibanez) sourced from several factories, not sure who made Cimar but Ibanez came from Fujigen. The factories supplied stock shots of the instruments so the same pics of the same unbranded instruments turn up in catalogues for various different brands - eg find an old Antoria catalogue and the pictures are the same as Ibanez for the same year. Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 In the mid 70s my parents bought me a Kimbara branded acoustic guitar. Six months later my friend also got one which was identical in almost every way except his said "Grant" on the headstock. Obviously from the same factory in Japan but imported by two different companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1389096221' post='2329767'] In the mid 70s my parents bought me a Kimbara branded acoustic guitar. Six months later my friend also got one which was identical in almost every way except his said "Grant" on the headstock. Obviously from the same factory in Japan but imported by two different companies. [/quote] Yep - Grant was a music shop in Glasgow who imported & distributed their own line. My first bass was a Grant. Awful, it was. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire5 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I noticed the words 'Ibanez Guitars' at the bottom left of the ad.Would reinforce what bassassin said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1389099855' post='2329840'] Yep - Grant was a music shop in Glasgow who imported & distributed their own line. My first bass was a Grant. Awful, it was. J. [/quote] I used to share a house with someone who had a Grant copy of the Höfner Violin Bass. I was unlucky enough to have to use it at a gig once... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) I was familiar with the concept of stencil brands, but I was very surprised to see the photos looking like that in the catalogue. Particularly the Ibanez catalogue. I assumed that the catalogues were aimed at consumers, rather than businesses. I'd guess they are dual purpose. At one point I was looking into buying an Antoria Les Paul, as they were cheaper than the equivalent Ibanez models. But, I never found the right one at the right price. As the owner of a Cimar bass, I was a bit disappointed to see them presented as a no-brand Edited January 7, 2014 by Annoying Twit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom in Dorset Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I had a no name jazz bass many years ago, thanks to the good folks here I found out that it was identical to the Antoria. I had assumed that the pictures were from a trade catalogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1389106141' post='2330025'] I was familiar with the concept of stencil brands, but I was very surprised to see the photos looking like that in the catalogue. Particularly the Ibanez catalogue. I assumed that the catalogues were aimed at consumers, rather than businesses. I'd guess they are dual purpose. At one point I was looking into buying an Antoria Les Paul, as they were cheaper than the equivalent Ibanez models. But, I never found the right one at the right price. As the owner of a Cimar bass, I was a bit disappointed to see them presented as a no-brand [/quote] How do you know it's not a dealer/importer only catalogue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMG456 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1389104261' post='2329968'] I used to share a house with someone who had a Grant copy of the Höfner Violin Bass. I was unlucky enough to have to use it at a gig once... [/quote] Have to step in and stick up for the Grants here, if only because I worked with Jimmy Grant for a spell both in Edinburgh where the business was based and in Glasgow which had the nicer shop! the deals for the year were usually done in February at the Frankfurt Music Messe - a huge international music business trade fair held every year. All the actual Japanese and then Korean etc. manufacturers would have stands there and be showing off their wares for the coming year. As can be seen, catalogues and the like tended to show the unbranded versions so that they could be used by anyone. Haggling over quantities and prices would take place until a mutually agreeable deal was done. The instruments would usually start arriving around the middle of the year. I'm not sure which factories all the Grant guitars were sourced from but I do recall a review of the Grant Telecaster copy in International Musician magazine in which the luthier Stephan Delft basically said that it was identical in every respect (including build quality) to the then current Fender offering. So they weren't all bad. Them were the days! Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameltoe Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1389099855' post='2329840'] Yep - Grant was a music shop in Glasgow who imported & distributed their own line. My first bass was a Grant. Awful, it was. J. [/quote] I've still got a Grant Les Paul copy in my shed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom in Dorset Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I know of several cases involving Chinese factories where the eventual instruments delivered bore little resemblance to the samples shown to the buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1389116958' post='2330252'] How do you know it's not a dealer/importer only catalogue? [/quote] I didn't, I was guessing. Given subsequent discussion, it being a catalogue intended for dealers would explain the unbranded instruments. I've gone through some later catalogues, and just a few years later in 1979 or so Cimar were releasing some much more distinctive and interesting instruments. And, they're branded in the catalogue. Edit: E.g. the Astra guitars here. http://www.ibanez.co.jp/anniversary/expansion.php?cat_id=34&now=1 And the XR basses here are mostly traditional, but slightly distinctive, and IMHO looking good for it. http://www.ibanez.co.jp/anniversary/expansion.php?cat_id=34&now=3 And the Stinger Jazz-ish bass here, http://www.ibanez.co.jp/anniversary/expansion.php?cat_id=52&now=1 Edited January 7, 2014 by Annoying Twit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='EMG456' timestamp='1389127690' post='2330464'] Have to step in and stick up for the Grants here, if only because I worked with Jimmy Grant for a spell both in Edinburgh where the business was based and in Glasgow which had the nicer shop! [/quote] I'm sure there was little wrong with the Grant Violin bass that I wouldn't have also found lacking in the "real thing". As I said in an earlier post a friend had a Grant acoustic guitar which was near identical to my Kimbara that I still have and occasionally use so I know that the quality was there on some of the models at least… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 [quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1389128963' post='2330491'] I've still got a Grant Les Paul copy in my shed! [/quote] My very first electric guitar was a Grant copy of a Les Paul Special. The pickups were flat coils mounted on the surface of the body, and the bridge was so badly positioned that it was impossible to intonate correctly. (I also saw Paddy McAloon play one at an early Prefab Sprout pub gig.) I took it back few days later and swapped it for a Cimar Strat copy not unlike the model 1940W in the catalogue in the link. This was pretty good but the pickups were somewhat micro phonic. A year later I upgrade to an Ibanez Musician 300. Now you know where my forum name comes from! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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