gsgbass Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I believe if the 4 ohms is the amps max, it will have an edge over the amp @ 8 ohms. More power normally pushes more sound from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 [quote name='gsgbass' timestamp='1384132742' post='2273177'] I believe if the 4 ohms is the amps max, it will have an edge over the amp @ 8 ohms. More power normally pushes more sound from it. [/quote]Rule # 1 of loudspeaker design: There's no such thing as a free lunch. What you gain with respect to voltage sensitivity with a lower impedance load comes at the expense of increased current draw. To preserve a balance between voltage and current headroom you should avoid running an amp into its minimum rated impedance load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subrob Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Damping factor is also halved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1384136580' post='2273187'] Rule # 1 of loudspeaker design: There's no such thing as a free lunch. What you gain with respect to voltage sensitivity with a lower impedance load comes at the expense of increased current draw. To preserve a balance between voltage and current headroom you should avoid running an amp into its minimum rated impedance load. [/quote] What effect does increased current draw have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 [quote name='subrob' timestamp='1384155395' post='2273210'] Damping factor is also halved. [/quote]Damping factor is moot. http://www.diyspeakers.net/Articles/Richard%20Pierce%20DAMPING%20FACTOR.pdf [quote]What effect does increased current draw have?[/quote]Potential for clipping, and heat, which shortens the life of amp components. Think of an amp as an engine. You wouldn't want to drive a car with the RPMs always red-lined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Ah, I see what you mean. Makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 It doesn't make a difference if the cabs are designed right. If you cut corners when designing the alternate impedance version of the drivers and the related crossover then it's perfectly possible for a 4 ohm and 8 ohm version of a cab to sound different. And if one has a sound which you prefer then you might declare that your amp sounds better into that impedance - but the difference wouldn't be because of the load or the power output but because the drivers sound different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgbass Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 My Markbass Mini CMD 121P Combo running without the external cab is a 4 ohm head, with a single 12 works at 300 watts @ 8 ohms with no clipping, or heat issues. I'd give it the edge in sound with the NY121 cab, 500 watts @ 4 ohms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 The extra speaker will ensure that any 2 x 112 rig will sound better than a 1 x 112 rig. My 2p is that, with modern speaker design 2 good 112 cabs (or equivalent 212) paired up with a good 500 watt amp are the perfect semi pro bass rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1384252390' post='2274386'] The extra speaker will ensure that any 2 x 112 rig will sound better than a 1 x 112 rig. My 2p is that, with modern speaker design 2 good 112 cabs (or equivalent 212) paired up with a good 500 watt amp are the perfect semi pro bass rig. [/quote] I get the 2x12 as there's a good mass coverage, but why a 500w amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 A 500 watt amp will give as much volume as you want while maintaining headroom, so providing better and more dynamic tone at high volume. I use a lot of bass in my sound and an amp running close to its limit won't produce full bass as well as an amp that's just ticking over. Having said that, my Berg CN212 has surprised me by being as loud as my other rig at about a third less volume. I don’t know, there might be other commercially available cabs out there which are that sensitive, but, IMO, as the difference in cost between a 500 watt amp and a lower wattage amp is not very much why bother with anything less than 500 watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1384261169' post='2274530'] Having said that, my Berg CN212 has surprised me by being as loud as my other rig at about a third less volume.[/quote] Not only the sensitivity, but the voicing. The Berg CN is voiced with quite a forward mid tone, which does make everything seem louder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1384261360' post='2274535'] The Berg CN is voiced with quite a forward mid tone, which does make everything seem louder. [/quote] Is that deliberate, or is the cab just less mid-scooped than other cabs (including other Bergs)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I think everything is deliberate when Bergantino cabs are being created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1384263250' post='2274575'] Is that deliberate, or is the cab just less mid-scooped than other cabs (including other Bergs)? [/quote] Definitely deliberately voiced like that. To be honest, I think a lot of the modern compact cabinets are voiced in this way to enable maximum volume from the size they are. Bergs have a certain class about their tone though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1384266310' post='2274625'] Bergs have a certain class about their tone though... [/quote] I'm sure you're right... but I just can't help wondering if a lot of that is due to the general quality of the fit and finish? A classy package that delivers a "classy" tone? In the same way that some people refer to a certain "rawness" in the tone of a lot of BareFaced cabs, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1384269869' post='2274671'] I'm sure you're right... but I just can't help wondering if a lot of that is due to the general quality of the fit and finish? A classy package that delivers a "classy" tone? In the same way that some people refer to a certain "rawness" in the tone of a lot of BareFaced cabs, maybe? [/quote] I think a lot of it comes down to Jim Bergantino's excellence when it comes to voicing bass guitar cabinets, (and indeed amps like the IP cabinets). He has a lot of experience in working with PA/Bass cabs, and worked on Sadowsky cabs before working on his own. According to those who seem to buy a lot of his product, a lot of it is in his crossovers. Eg, the transition between the driver high end and the horn. Yes, his fit and finish is immaculate, but it definitely SHOULD be at that price. It's expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgbass Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 500 Watts seems to be an industry "Magic Number." I'm not complaining, I like the response, and air push the Markbass gives me with the 2 1X12 cabs. I'm old school, you need power to push the air of sound, and a full sound comes from power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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