Sumatra Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Hi, just found a nice Fullerton '62 Jazz bass from 1985 here in Italy and wanted to share this and ask for comments. It should be all original according to the seller, case is the original with certs and candy. It plays good, need a good set up (you may notice the saddles all the way down, but I've been confirmed that the t-rod works perfeclty and for the moment let's consider this as true as I have no reason to doubt). I opened this thread because despite the quite good reputation the instruments from this era have (and the quite high value they go for) I didn't find so many threads talking about 62Jazz Fullerton and thought this could be anyway useful for future generations in the same position I am now And obviously I opened this because I wanted to hear experts and people opinion on a couple of details: Do you find anything unexpected or suspected to be not original from the era? I'm no expert at all, but to me it looked all original, it seems the right "pepperoni tortoise" pickguard, the strap button behind the headstock should be accurate of the 60s , the stack knobs are there and everything seems nicely aged. Got no idea of what should be the correct drilling pattern of the pickguard and if this may reveal something strange... One thing that I noticed is that the fretboard seems to me veeery thin to be original from factory, suggesting that this may have possibly undergone refretting. Have you got the same impression? And in the case should this be a reason to drop the value? And last but not least: what would be a good price for this, in the hypothesis that it is sounding good, and it is light and confortable to play? [attachment=145210:body and fb.jpg] [attachment=145211:body back.jpg] [attachment=145212:certs.jpg] [attachment=145213:headstock back.jpg] [attachment=145214:headstock front.jpg] [attachment=145215:pickguard and fb.jpg] [attachment=145216:SN.jpg] thanks a lot guys, Luca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Peoples opinions of how good or bad this bass is will altered by how much it is being sold for - care to tell us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh2 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Looks bloody superb... the saddles bother me a bit though. Depending on how much is left on the truss you may need to shim the neck... hmmm. As to price.. I'll pass on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumatra Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1380738080' post='2229854'] Peoples opinions of how good or bad this bass is will altered by how much it is being sold for - care to tell us? [/quote] I intentionally didn't report the price not to influence the comments on the bass or on the correct value. It is now out at 2400 euro (around 2000 pounds). It is sold by a shop for a private (they will take a charge for that). Thanks for the comments guys, Luca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumatra Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 [quote name='bh2' timestamp='1380742490' post='2229989'] Looks bloody superb... the saddles bother me a bit though. Depending on how much is left on the truss you may need to shim the neck... hmmm. As to price.. I'll pass on that. [/quote] Looks really nice to me as well but for the first time in my life, to be 100% honest, to me in the pictures it is looking better than in real. It is nice but I thought that having it in the hands I would have really felt like having the real thing.. well it is the real thing but I feel it is a real "another" thing.. Makes sense? Luca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 That sounds like a lot of money for a '62RI. It would need to be particularly nice to play and sound great to warrant that sort of price. I played a brand new Fender Custom Shop recently that was in a similar price brackets and it sounded really, really nice and I think the CS models will hold value better. I've seen early 90's RI basses that have been excellent that have sold for around the £1,200 mark. Obviously this one is quite different but I'm not sure that the early '80's models are really commanding this sort of value at the moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 If you search on the forum you get an idea of what they have sold for but I can say that a few years ago I 'tried' (failed) to sell one on here for less than £1000... iirc a lot less! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumatra Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 [quote name='molan' timestamp='1380750018' post='2230192'] That sounds like a lot of money for a '62RI. It would need to be particularly nice to play and sound great to warrant that sort of price. I played a brand new Fender Custom Shop recently that was in a similar price brackets and it sounded really, really nice and I think the CS models will hold value better. I've seen early 90's RI basses that have been excellent that have sold for around the £1,200 mark. Obviously this one is quite different but I'm not sure that the early '80's models are really commanding this sort of value at the moment? [/quote] There was also a custom shop and to me this was better. I know Fullerton are somewhat special, I'm as well not sure if they are worth that money or what should be a "correct" value. Thanks Luca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 [quote name='Sumatra' timestamp='1380750357' post='2230201'] There was also a custom shop and to me this was better. I know Fullerton are somewhat special, I'm as well not sure if they are worth that money or what should be a "correct" value. Thanks Luca [/quote] It depends what you want it for.... like there's no reason to spend £2k on a Fullerton when you can buy pretty much any bass you want at the moment secondhand for £1k or so. But Fullerton prices have started going up recently.... (this is my 30 year vintage rule I think I do find it funny I meantioned my offhand comment that fenders start going up in price after 30 years once... and so far have seen other folk quote the 30 year rule in other threads. I've started a very very very small meme! any way back on topic) but if it's a "vintage fender" investment type thing maybe it's worth it? also 85 seems late for "fullerton" or one of the last? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumatra Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 [quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1380750278' post='2230194'] If you search on the forum you get an idea of what they have sold for but I can say that a few years ago I 'tried' (failed) to sell one on here for less than £1000... iirc a lot less! [/quote] Was it a real Fullerton 62 American vintage, or only a standard jazz bass made at that time? Luca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 [quote name='Sumatra' timestamp='1380751040' post='2230222'] Was it a real Fullerton 62 American vintage, or only a standard jazz bass made at that time? Luca [/quote] I can assure you it was a pukka 'V' plate 62 RI... in fact it was the actual bass that was used in a shoot-out between a variety of basses reviewed in the 'Bassist' magazine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumatra Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1380751002' post='2230221'] It depends what you want it for.... like there's no reason to spend £2k on a Fullerton when you can buy pretty much any bass you want at the moment secondhand for £1k or so. But Fullerton prices have started going up recently.... (this is my 30 year vintage rule I think I do find it funny I meantioned my offhand comment that fenders start going up in price after 30 years once... and so far have seen other folk quote the 30 year rule in other threads. I've started a very very very small meme! any way back on topic) but if it's a "vintage fender" investment type thing maybe it's worth it? also 85 seems late for "fullerton" or one of the last? [/quote] The vintage guitar price guide calls for 1700 to 2400 bucks for a 62 jazz from 82 from 84, and 1200 to 1900 from 86 to 99. I guess there are always transition periods and it is difficult to attribute an instrument to a specific class and differentiate it from the following one.. But this to me is also an evidence that the Fullerton American vintage are actually priced for a higher value recognized by the market. It seems actually like for some people (both owners and "lurkers") this is totally not justified by a superior quality, while for others this is absolutely reflected by the sound, feel and playability. This is the most confusing thing for me now. Not sure if this is a sort of fever for vintage-no-matter-what, but as long as it is the market price and we are close to what it is valued for by the market I wouldn't have many problems (a part for spending the money ). Big problem is if I'm paying much more than what their "right value" is... I can always do this if I think that the instrument is special, but I believe this will anyway be a bad investment. Thanks Luca Edited October 2, 2013 by Sumatra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Actually I have just found that my bass was a pukka 62 RI (with stack-knobs AND a J retro inc) but it was from 91... then again I sold it for £600 after not getting any interest on Basschat @ £675! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 [quote name='Sumatra' timestamp='1380751814' post='2230245'] The vintage guitar price guide calls for 1700 to 2400 bucks for a 62 jazz from 82 from 84, and 1200 to 1900 from 86 to 99. I guess there are always transition periods and it is difficult to attribute an instrument to a specific class and differentiate it from the following one.. But this to me is also an evidence that the Fullerton American vintage are actually priced for a higher value recognized by the market. It seems actually like for some people (both owners and "lurkers") this is totally not justified by a superior quality, while for others this is absolutely reflected by the sound, feel and playability. This is the most confusing thing for me now. Not sure if this is a sort of fever for vintage-no-matter-what, but as long as it is the market price and we are close to what it is valued for by the market I wouldn't have many problems (a part for spending the money ). Big problem is if I'm paying much more than what their "right value" is... I can always do this if I think that the instrument is special, but I believe this will anyway be a bad investment. Thanks Luca [/quote] 2400 dollars is about £1500 so the guide is saying £1000-1500, which is about what they sell for I think, if not a bit less (values change, exchange rates move etc) don't get me wrong, the Fullerton Reissues from 82-85, along with the early 82-83 JV reissues all tend to be exceptional guitars and probably worth extra over the late 80's (or even the late 70's maybe). But £2000 is a lot - for that you could get.... a first edition jv, a tokai jazz sound and early Yamaha BB... all great early 80's intstruments with great reputation. Mind you i've just realised that they are all japanese! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 [quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1380752089' post='2230248'] Actually I have just found that my bass was a pukka 62 RI (with stack-knobs AND a J retro inc) but it was from 91... then again I sold it for £600 after not getting any interest on Basschat @ £675! [/quote] ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumatra Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1380754854' post='2230298'] 2400 dollars is about £1500 so the guide is saying £1000-1500, which is about what they sell for I think, if not a bit less (values change, exchange rates move etc) don't get me wrong, the Fullerton Reissues from 82-85, along with the early 82-83 JV reissues all tend to be exceptional guitars and probably worth extra over the late 80's (or even the late 70's maybe). But £2000 is a lot - for that you could get.... a first edition jv, a tokai jazz sound and early Yamaha BB... all great early 80's intstruments with great reputation. Mind you i've just realised that they are all japanese! [/quote] I was initially applying the exchange rate directly and thinking that the bass was all the way overpriced, but then I thought that was not the correct way to proceed. First I should consider that if I want to get the bass from US (a part not being able to test it before paying it) I have to pay shipping and VAT at the custom. If I want to make a parallel/comparison, I should take into consideration that the Italian market is different from the US (US has more availability of instruments and there are more buyers with the money to spend in gear). I though the best way to use the guide is to create comparisons between models, and then see what is the price range in your market for those models... Fullertons 62Jazzes (1700-2400) are more or less in the price range of a current 60Jazz Custom shop with Relic option (1900-2100), and somewhat above a 60Jazz Custom shop NOS option (1600-1800), but of course the price of vintage is affected by more variability (fever for vintage, or claimed-vintage items). My impression is that Custom shops are sold around 2000 euro (range from 1700 to 2400 euro roughly) so I finally tend to believe that a correct pricing for the bass should be around 2000 euro, adding something more if it is really exceptional to your ear (let's say not more than 150-200 euro if you really believe you won't find another one as good in the next few years), and dropping something if there's something wrong (conditions of the intrsument, refretting job??, lack of the original case or the certs, anything else that I cannot think of now..). But this is only my evaluation, I was courious if there was some vintage expert (or Fullerton experienced-guy) who had something interesting to add to this minor thought of mine thanks again to all for your feedbacks Luca Edited October 3, 2013 by Sumatra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacker Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) The 'veneer' - or cap - to which your refer thins out and the cap progressed to the heel of the neck on all of the AVRIs I have seen. This may be to lighten the tone in the upper registers but the taper in the cap is correct. Edited October 3, 2013 by Stacker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumatra Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Stacker' timestamp='1380792568' post='2230520'] The 'veneer' - or cap - to which your refer thins out and the cap progressed to the heel of the neck on all of the AVRIs I have seen. This may be to lighten the tone in the upper registers but the taper in the cap is correct. [/quote] Sorry but because of my (poor) English I'm not sure if I got it right: do you mean that you noticed a "thinnered" fingerboard towards the neck heel on all the AVRIs, done intentionally for a tone-wise reason in the upper register? What if the fingerboard was equally thin all across the neck? Thanks Luca Edited October 3, 2013 by Sumatra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh2 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Ooh... price is a bit tops... I'd pass and get a 62RI with stacks new for half the price. I am a tight git though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumatra Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 [quote name='bh2' timestamp='1380795540' post='2230592'] Ooh... price is a bit tops... I'd pass and get a 62RI with stacks new for half the price. I am a tight git though. [/quote] guess that if I won't end up with a new Fullerton jazz this time I'll have at least collected a fair number of nice English lessons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacker Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 [quote name='Sumatra' timestamp='1380793088' post='2230533'] Sorry but because of my (poor) English I'm not sure if I got it right: do you mean that you noticed a "thinnered" fingerboard towards the neck heel on all the AVRIs, done intentionally for a tone-wise reason in the upper register? What if the fingerboard was equally thin all across the neck? Thanks Luca [/quote] Yes. In my experience, all 62RIs have the thinning of the cap. And, yes, that bass is a bit overpriced! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumatra Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 [quote name='Stacker' timestamp='1380876145' post='2231704'] Yes. In my experience, all 62RIs have the thinning of the cap. And, yes, that bass is a bit overpriced! [/quote] So you would consider acceptable (not cheap) around 2k euro? Luca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick's Fine '52 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 OK, my two-penneth. Firstly, the bass looks right to me for a Fullerton. The price is top dollar though for even a V00 '82. The double '0' serials are far more desirable than the V0 models, because they are generally '82, and the first year of these are more desirable, and more expensive. Without seeing the neck date, this could be anything from '84 to '89, the V0 series seemed to run forever. J's are rarer than P's. Custom colours are rarer than sunbursts. For my money, if it was an '84, and all correct, and played really nice, it would be for sale, in a store for between £1500 and £1750 GBP, similar relative price in Europe and a little less in the US (There's more there, simple as that). They are very fine instruments though, although the quality did start to drop in '84, and the '82 ones are far more desirable. Original pale tweed case with overly fluffy orange lining is a big plus. If it was me, and I wanted one of these, I'd go see it, check the pot dates, and neck date/stamps, check the pickups are original. If it was all good, played nice, sounded great, truss was free, I'd buy it, for around £1500, in todays economic climate, I'd start the haggle at less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK Jale Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 ^That's way more than two pennies' worth of advice, it's excellent. As for me, I would find the finest '82 JV possible, for half the money. But you may already have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epoxyjazzbass Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 It' s not a Fullerton. If the seller want this price and pretend it' s a fullerton.... Well my advice is look elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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