Less boom and raising a 4x10?

[JTUK]

I also think the kit is not delivering.
Root and branch rethink, maybe.

FWIW, I think a clean balanced bass sound is the start point. Couple that with a clean technique and the amp and cab combo has less work to do
in fixing/compensating the sound as all you have basically got to do is amplify it.
If the sound needs a little more... and little is always 'more' then you don't complicate things too much.

I have never really been a fan of having to get the cab off the ground artifically and if you can't hear the bass then there are a lot more problems soundwise that you should be getting into.

Clean sounds and clean band mix should do it...but by the same token, you can get sh**y rooms and it is your choice whether you want to play there.

I also start from the point of adding sounds as getting rid of low frequencies is the wrong way to approach it.

[Guest]

I can't see much point in adding frequencies if you're struggling with boomyness. Surely it makes sense to cut the troublesome frequencies then add what you want....No ??

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='kennyrodg' timestamp='1359931519' post='1962339']
I can't see much point in adding frequencies if you're struggling with boomyness. Surely it makes sense to cut the troublesome frequencies then add what you want....No ??

[/quote]Yes. Boom is too much midbass. To address it electronically the best tool is a parametric, set to a narrow width, perhaps 10dB cut, sweeping the frequency knob untll the offending frequency is found and attenuated.

[JTUK]

[quote name='kennyrodg' timestamp='1359931519' post='1962339']
I can't see much point in adding frequencies if you're struggling with boomyness. Surely it makes sense to cut the troublesome frequencies then add what you want....No ??

[/quote]

You need a clean sound to start with..that means the sound will tend to be light in the first instance.

[Prime_BASS]

The cab sounds fine when raised, and when it's at a show.
My main boom is in my practice space. the room has always been bad, even had boom with a lot of the barefaced cabs I've had before.

I want to raise it just get it closer to my ear. Short cabs regardless of how 'good' they are have always sounded terrible to me sat on the floor, as I can't hear the damn thing, my ears are on my head not in my damn ankles.

[nottswarwick]

A mixing desk stand is the answer.

[fatback]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1360093336' post='1964791']
The cab sounds fine when raised, and when it's at a show.
My main boom is in my practice space. the room has always been bad, even had boom with a lot of the barefaced cabs I've had before.

I want to raise it just get it closer to my ear. Short cabs regardless of how 'good' they are have always sounded terrible to me sat on the floor, as I can't hear the damn thing, my ears are on my head not in my damn ankles.
[/quote]

Some acoustic foam under the cab or even the front bottom edge of the cab will probably sort the boom if it's to do with the floor resonating. Whether it's a gramma or something else doesn't matter. Honest, it works.

Do be careful about raising the cab too much though. Losing reinforcement from the floor reflection can cost a fair bit of oomph in my experience. More than a couple of feet might be too much.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1360163333' post='1965932']

Some acoustic foam under the cab or even the front bottom edge of the cab will probably sort the boom if it's to do with the floor resonating. Whether it's a gramma or something else doesn't matter. Honest, it works.[/quote]The boom is caused by the output of the speaker, not contact with the stage, so isolating the cab won't stop boom. It can only reduce the cabinet vibrating atop the stage. As for "I know what I'm hearing", if you did you could draw a response chart with and without the pad. I know I can't, but that's why they invented gear to measure response.
If there was a measurable difference in the lows sellers of pads would show those measured results. They don't. Auralex does show a chart for the Subdude that shows reduction of 'Sound Transmission Loss', whatever that is, in the midrange. Why that matters with a subwoofer one can only guess, while their chart stops at 100Hz, when the output of a sub is all below 100Hz.
Worse, read the fine print about their results: [i]This test was estimated. [/i]
[quote] Losing reinforcement from the floor reflection can cost a fair bit of oomph in my experience.
[/quote]Where controlling boom is concerned that's the point. The only issue is getting the height correct to reduce the correct frequency, or not raising at all when not required, but still tilting it back so that the highs are aimed at your ears.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1360169567' post='1966069']
Where controlling boom is concerned that's the point. The only issue is getting the height correct to reduce the correct frequency, or not raising at all when not required, but still tilting it back so that the highs are aimed at your ears.
[/quote]

This is what I'm after really. Having it in the air all the time in my mind will give me a more consistent sound from room to room, stage to stage.

no?

give or take wall/ceiling reflection?

[nottswarwick]

Mixing desk stand

http://www.production-room.com/quiklok-stands/quiklok-ws540-mixer-stand/?gclid=CPb1vJz5pLUCFXHLtAodPl8AYg

I use one, but for a mixer. Would do what you need. Although to be honest, it all seems like a bit of a faff. As bass players, we have the hardest job of the band getting a decent and consistent sound as rooms play havoc with our frequencies, so personally I just EQ them out, and find that the LM3 is adequate for this. I have the DI set as pre EQ, so I can EQ for the stage on my amp, and for the FOH on the desk. Job done. Easy.

[chrismuzz]

I always have my 4x10 on the floor, with no fancy gizmos isolating it. I set my EQ flat, except for a smidgen of VPF and VLE to taste.The way I get rid of boom is to then adjust the Lows until I get the desired effect. It's slightly different for every room.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1359584865' post='1957238']
+1, though anything that will lift it 30 odd inches will do. Lifting it that high introduces a floor bounce reflection that counteracts boom in the midbass.
[/quote]

I've read allof your contributions so far to this thread. Very interesting and useful information. Thanks!

Edited February 7, 2013 by chrismuzz

[nottswarwick]

And tilt it back as Bill says, to make it audible for you. Not much else you can do.

[nottswarwick]

Or get a smaller cab (eg a 1 by 12 or 2 10) which by definition will have lighter lows.

[nottswarwick]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1360266011' post='1967844']
I always have my 4x10 on the floor, with no fancy gizmos isolating it. I set my EQ flat, except for a smidgen of VPF and VLE to taste.The way I get rid of boom is to then adjust the Lows until I get the desired effect. It's slightly different for every room.


[/quote]

that is it, exactly. The LM3 has a great low control, which I find always needs to be dialled back to some degree, often alot more than you might expect.

Honestly, you should be able to sort it with just the EQ on the amp. I have always managed to, seriously.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1360266175' post='1967848']
that is it, exactly. The LM3 has a great low control, which I find always needs to be dialled back to some degree, often alot more than you might expect.
[/quote]

At my last gig my Lows were set at 10 o clock!

[nottswarwick]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1360266296' post='1967851']


At my last gig my Lows were set at 10 o clock!
[/quote]

Mine are frequently there or less. Works a treat.

[niceguyhomer]

I stuck my Markbass 104HF on a couple of beer crates last night - what a difference. Previously, the cab sounded great in the mix out front but really boomy on stage, last night it was tight, punchy and I could hear every note. It probably sounds a bit weird but I felt like I was in control of the sound rather than the cab and subtle changes to the EQ really came out. Sold to the fat bloke in Preston.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1359584301' post='1957218']
....I'm finding however during rehearsals and the one gig I've done, unless it is higher, around the height of what a 8x10 would be thus closer to my ear it's a bit boomy in the lows, probably some dispersion thing aswell as as coupling....
[/quote]

Does this only happen at rehearsals, or at gigs as well?

If you're getting boom out of a STL 6 then you've got EQ and/or placement issues. Get a GRAMMA put your cab in a different place in your rehearsal space and experiment witht the EQ.

[JTUK]

It may also be that some have to play with the sound EQ'd a certain way and can't adapt if that sound doesn't work.
What do you put first...good sound or the sound you have/want to use...??

I find I tweak my sound over the weeks and then have to adjust my playing to that.... but I always start from a 'clean' sound so the adjustments aren't
any sort of pain, and then embellish it as per my whims
Depends how much your technique is dependent on sound ..

[deepbass5]

This is all about playing too loud in a practice room. You need to train your ear to identify frequencies. ring the room out just like setting up a PA, bring up the volume until the first peak frequency booms or howls, notch that frequency down 3< 6 dB then start over, You do not need expensive things to put your cab on just learn how to set up to minimise problems, mic stand and monitor placement, back line placement etc. Apologies to Bill for my earlier comment but he is right you do need a parametric to get the best results without affecting frequencies either side you need to retain. A graphic will do it but anything less than 31 band 1/3rd of an octave per slider will affect your sound. a good parametric gives you an adjustable Q which is the width of frequency band affected. A notch filter is ideal

[niceguyhomer]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1360495944' post='1971133']
It may also be that some have to play with the sound EQ'd a certain way and can't adapt if that sound doesn't work.
What do you put first...good sound or the sound you have/want to use...??

I find I tweak my sound over the weeks and then have to adjust my playing to that.... but I always start from a 'clean' sound so the adjustments aren't
any sort of pain, and then embellish it as per my whims
Depends how much your technique is dependent on sound ..
[/quote]

Technique isn't really a consideration for me, I play the notes I want to play in the way I play them but a good on stage sound makes me play just a little bit better.

Edited February 11, 2013 by niceguyhomer

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1360495944' post='1971133']
Depends how much your technique is dependent on sound ..
[/quote]
Do you not mean sound dependant on technique?

[quote name='deepbass5' timestamp='1360501860' post='1971260']
This is all about playing too loud in a practice room. You need to train your ear to identify frequencies. ring the room out just like setting up a PA, bring up the volume until the first peak frequency booms or howls, notch that frequency down 3< 6 dB then start over, You do not need expensive things to put your cab on just learn how to set up to minimise problems.
Q which is the width of frequency band affected. A notch filter is ideal
[/quote]
That all sounds like too much hassle than it's worth. I'd like to have the cab raised all the time as a lot of gigs we do I'm stood right next to the amp and no amount of wedges or EQ helps my ears hear it, my ankles can fine, turning the lows or low mids down just stops my trousers flapping.
I know what Q is thanks, not too many pedal based eq's that give all the features and come cheap too.

[chrismuzz]

I think if you want a convenient way to raise the cab off the floor due to it being inches away from you, the best suggestion so far would be a flight case. That would instantly put it at 8x10 height, without taking up any extra room, or being an extra thing to carry

[JTUK]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1360523473' post='1971761']
Do you not mean sound dependant on technique?

[/quote]

No..both apply.

Some players have to have a certain sound to play certain things... generally as their technique is quite one-dimensional.
or can only play with a certain sound.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1360525056' post='1971816']
No..both apply.

Some players have to have a certain sound to play certain things... generally as their technique is quite one-dimensional.
or can only play with a certain sound.
[/quote]

+1 to this. If I want to play any melodic stuff I have to roll off a little bit of treble and midrange so that I don't sound sloppy with my aggressive right hand technique, whereas for the majority of my playing the harshness really works!