Chrismanbass Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Hi guys bit of a random one but this thought popped into my head since next year i'll be finishing my degree and entering the perilous world of trying to make a living from music. Do i have to insure my car as business & social rather than just social since this is the main form of transport to gigs and that's where my main income is coming from? from what i can make out there's two schools of thought on this either that no its no different to taking your car to work with you every day and working in a factory or yes its the same as a builders van that he uses to get from job to job thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushers Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 they do try to wrangle out of payouts, i use direct line they supply both the covers at a good price worth shoppping around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Might depend on your insurance company. The golden rule is to always disclose such things as they are deemed to be 'material facts' and failure to disclose them could lead to problems in the event of a claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodster Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 The general image insurance companies have of pro musicians is that we drive long distances, often, we drive in major cities and also late at night. We also park for long periods in unsavoury locations and carry expensive equipment with us.... These may or may not always be the case but that is why car insurance is loaded for us. Flyfisher is right... Give an insurance company the tiniest chance of a get-out and they WILL refuse any claim that might arise... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 I guess the fact that i live in London won't please them too much either then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Play it with a straight bat. The small increase in your premium will be less than the grief you'd get for lying to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1341445208' post='1719346']On other side of the fence, if you were involved in an incident where a claim was involved, unless you were daft enough to disclose that you were a professional musician that travels all over the country for work, then I don't think it is something that is likely to come to light. [/quote]This is called insurance 'fronting' and if found out ("why is there a bass in your car?" "why are you rehearsing so far from home?" "what is the number of one of your band members / rehearsal space?") you will get 5 points + fine for no insurance (as will the registered keeper if not the same person). Then getting proper insurance will be pretty tricky and pretty expensive. As an aside, I believe that even if you are a "hobbiest" player and get paid for a gig then you would also need business insurance (plus filing in a self assessment of course!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 [quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1341465952' post='1719387'] This is called insurance 'fronting' and if found out ("why is there a bass in your car?" "why are you rehearsing so far from home?" "what is the number of one of your band members / rehearsal space?") you will get 5 points + fine for no insurance (as will the registered keeper if not the same person). Then getting proper insurance will be pretty tricky and pretty expensive. [/quote] 'Fronting' has been a big issue with parents insuring their kids cars and naming the kids as a named driver. This can save loads of money but will almost guarantee a lot of investigation if little Johnny is involved in a claim. But if you're up-front with your insurance company and discuss things openly then you may be surprised. My lad's car is insured in my name and I add him to the policy as a named driver during his uni holidays (he doesn't take the car to uni). During these times he is really the main driver and because I was concerned about 'fronting' I discussed this with my insurance company (Direct Line). They said this was no problem. First, they said that many parents of uni students do this and DL accepted that the student was not the main driver over the whole year. Secondly, because I had disclosed this then it was recorded on my policy notes as being OK, plus all conversations are recorded anyway. Thirdly, when they add a named driver to a policy for a temporary period, they automatically assume that they will be the main driver for that period of time. While I'd agree that insurance companies have a bad reputation for getting out of paying claims I also think we have to play fair by them as well. Indeed, by disclosing all 'material facts' actually makes it [u]harder[/u] for them to wriggle out of a claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassfunk Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 so for those of you who have been up front about their business usage who do you use? Don't most insurers refuse to cover musicians/entertainers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musophilr Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 and if you enquire about insurance for musical/business purposes from your current insurer, and you don't like what they tell you, don't they record it somewhere that you've asked, so any other insurance company you approach (even for non-music/business use) will know that you've asked about it and try to load your premium anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 When i moved from company car to my own the insurer said it was ok to travel to and from one place of work but not between jobs. When i arrive at work i cannot travel to another site using my own car. Didn't matter if the site was local or 200miles away. I wasn't aware that what i carried in my car was relevant to an insurance company. Don't see that it is relevant. Your insurance will cover for an agreed claim on items stolen from car. You should be looking at seperate insurance for your gear if you feel the need to. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Thanks guys again some stuff to think about tbh i'm not too worried about my gear being stolen from my car as i have separate gear insurance anyway to cover me in that eventuality, however i have heard of a friend who's drums got smashed pretty badly in a car accident and the other parties insurance company paid for old for new replacements (i guess they're not all bad) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 [quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1341490866' post='1719903']I wasn't aware that what i carried in my car was relevant to an insurance company. Don't see that it is relevant.[/quote]It is not unless it is loaded in a unsafe manor, takes the vehicle overweight and/or is evidence of insurance fronting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) If you regularly carry gold bullion it would make the car a more likely target for ne'er do wells. The gold itself might not be covered by the insurance company but damage to the car would be, hence the likely contents of the car are of 'material interest' to the insurance company. OK, gold is an unlikely example, but expensive music, photo, video gear, etc . . . . . . ? Edited July 6, 2012 by flyfisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassfunk Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I just called my insurance company (Admiral) as my insurance is due for renewal on Monday. I had a cheaper quote from Diamond and told them the details (they're all part of the same umbrella company) and they brought my premium down from the original renewal price and included business use and a 2nd occupation as a musician in a dance band! still bloody expensive but at least I'm being honest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 [quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1341561253' post='1720848'] It is not unless it is loaded in a unsafe manor, takes the vehicle overweight and/or is evidence of insurance fronting. [/quote] I see what you mean. Agree that loading could be an issue and make vehicle unsafe. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 [quote name='bassfunk' timestamp='1341578108' post='1721202'] I just called my insurance company (Admiral) as my insurance is due for renewal on Monday. I had a cheaper quote from Diamond and told them the details (they're all part of the same umbrella company) and they brought my premium down from the original renewal price and included business use and a 2nd occupation as a musician in a dance band! still bloody expensive but at least I'm being honest! [/quote] Must depend on who you speak to at Admiral cause they weren't interested when i was with them and got several lower quotes from reputable companies. Yet they were by far a lot cheaper than most when i joined with them 3 or 4 yrs earlier. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I couldn't get insured for years by some o fthe main companies as I worked in a record company. Ended up with Privilige, which although a sister company of Direct Line will do the higher risk insurance (and charge you for it)! Many of the major players do specifically nclude anyone working in ANY part of the music industry, so again, I think honesty is painful but the only way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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