stingrayPete1977 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 [quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1341346993' post='1717579'] Nothing wrong with doing it this way but it doesn't really take much longer to just learn the intervals outright. [/quote] This is where the arguements start as regards learning theory rather than just hearing/feeling/jamming it, I have never really learnt intervals (only really knew what they were a few years ago!) but I have known for years what a 4th or a 5th or an octave etc sound like in relation from any note I happen to be playing. I kind of dont need to learn them now but that also frustrates me in a way where I wish I had done it the right way years ago instead as it would of bought more knowledge with it Im sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samzemuel Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1341342270' post='1717446'] If you have an android phone there is a free App that plays a note then you have to work out what it is. Also does scales and chords too (although that is above me) Might be worth it for any free time. [/quote] I download Perfect Ear whilst on night shift last night , nothing better than sat in a van trying to stay awake trying to recognise major / minor 3rds. Quite impressed so far for a free app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) [quote name='norvegicusbass' timestamp='1341314274' post='1716716'] I don't know what a note will sound like until I actually play it. Or more correctly I don't have a good understanding of intervals. I think this is holding me back from inventing my own bass lines as I can come up with quite decent lines in my head whilst listening to familiar songs ( different from the original of course ) but cant find those notes on my fretboard in real time as I try to play along. [b]Do the top players and jazz players in particular already have a strong idea of what note will ring out wherever they are on the fretboard?[/b] I think this is a tremendous advantage in improvisation. Will it be something that will come in time and loads of practice? [/quote] Most certainly as it is a pretty basic skill. You do need to be able to hear a two tone interval up or down the scale as much as you need to hear 4th and 5ths. Play songs as the interval of the scale rather than the key and you'll the be able to transpose easily..and once you get comfortable with this...you'll hear common intervals. You can do it by plain repetition but you aren't really delving into things much by doing this parrot fashion. If you understand positions on the fretboard as well as notes, you'll see common combinations and them begin to hear the 'change'. It is a basic busking tool and without dots or charts, this is how a band sounds very together when nobody knows anyone on stage or what the tune is. This is a variation of the Old Nashville numbers chart which concentrates on intervals rather than notes as it allowed very simple transposition in the studio and was very good for vocal harmonies.. [url="http://nvsongwriter.hubpages.com/hub/nashvillenumbers"]http://nvsongwriter....ashvillenumbers[/url] I don't say it replaces the need to know where the notes are all over the fretboard but it puts songs into a format where intervals are obvious. Edited July 6, 2012 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I found studying and playing a piano keyboard while ear training very useful. The keyboard layout lends a different perspective. My first musical instument was the trumpet. It developed the ear very well, as I had to mentally pitch the note before I played it. I suspect an unlined fretless bass may go some way towards facilitating the same process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 [quote name='norvegicusbass' timestamp='1341316049' post='1716783'] Isnt this what jazz players do though when they improvise? [/quote] They do - but only because they have spent years understanding scales, intervals and chords. Good improvisation relies on a good understanding of theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 The way I used to teach intervals when I was a music teacher was to get people to think of songs (I had a list as backup in case they couldn't) that had the intervals in them. e.g. in Sweet Dreams the main riff is root, root, fifth, so if anything sounds like it's the same interval as the jump from root to 5th in Sweet Dreams, you know that's the interval. Same with Smeels Like Teen Spirit, the first two notes in the main riff goes up a 4th. If you can try and find songs that fit all the intervals and you know well enough to remember what they sound like, then you can apply that to other songs or to jamming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 [quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1341561914' post='1720857'] I found studying and playing a piano keyboard while ear training very useful. The keyboard layout lends a different perspective. [/quote] Agree entirely with that. I learnt piano before I picked up a guitar or bass. As you say, the keyboard gives a different perspective. As scales are set out in a very linear fashion, it is much easier, IMO, to understand how intervals work. Its no accident that most top classical musicians are proficient pianists, even if piano is not their main instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 What I did was to tie intervals in with lines/phrases I know by ear Minor second/semi-tone + the two notes from the Jaws Them Major Second - tone (easy, the first two notes of a major scale) Minor Third - the first two notes of Smoke On The Water Major Minor - the first two notes of the standard 'Stardust' Fourth - the first two notes of the bassline to 'Summer Lovin' from Grease Flat five - the doorbell from The Addams Family/the first two notes of Maria from West SIde Story Fifth - the riff from Peter Gabriel's Biko etc etc flat sixth - one of my own tunes Sixth - Inchworm flat seventh is the Star Trek Theme major seventh - major scale going down but up ! Octave - My Sharona You should find your own tunes, things you know well that use these interfvals in their melody or as part of a memorable bassline: I mean memorable to you. Try to find notes that are the first tww of a tune as they 'go in' better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 PS what jazz musicians do is sing the lines they are going to play a micro second before they play them and, after doing this for a million hours, get good at it. Listen to George Benson, Richard Bona, Otiell Burbidge, Paul Chambers, Slam Stewart - loads of them do it. Some do it badly i.e. their idas are formed in the same way but their voice fails to articulate it and it comes out as mumbling, muttering and graoning; Chick Corea is terrible at it! John Miles "Stand up (And Give Me a Reason)" from his Stranger In The City LP was a great solo done in this way and there are a few blues players that do it well. It is evidence that you are playing the instrument and not just wiggling your fingers as you can't do it the wrong way around. Make sure you are playing what you are singing not singin what you are playing; you can hear the difference and it sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Ian Anderson manages this on a flute! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 There are people out there that can harmonise with their instrument and sing thirds etc to their solo lines. Horn players sometimes do this (Roland Kirk is one) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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