Thinking about EUB...

[surfinbernard]

I am toying with the idea of getting an EUB, I can't have a real DB, we are both musicians in our house and have a LOT of music equipment already and with two kids... an acoustic DB would just be stupid! But when I hear the bassline on, for example, Rumble (Link Wray) I really, really want an upright bass.

So the question is, how about a budget model like the Stagg or the Harley Benton they have in Thomann...? Would I be disappointed with it or is it excellent value for money? Is there one worth saving up a bit more for? I can't justify a massive purchase- again: kids, already have many musical instruments and a lot of other kit ...

There's no point me getting something I would straight away outgrow (I have a lengthy musical background so tend to learn quickly and already play bass guitar), is the Stagg going to be able to see me past learning the fundamentals? Has anyone got any experience of those Harley Benton ones?

I only know one upright player and not well, he is a hardcore rockabilly player and would probably think that EUBs are some kind of blasphemy so I didn't want to ask him! Thanks in advance

[Silvia Bluejay]

When you mention the Harley Benton, do you mean the entry model 500 as in my signature? If it's that one, it's very basic, but IMO decent value for money.
You may find that you prefer to install a set of new strings, and that the headphones output is really quiet, and that the fingerboard is painted and therefore will get your hands dirty for a while. On the other hand, the sound obtained with the DB setting is closer to a real DB than the same setting on my NS NXT, for instance (which I seem to remember is similar to the Stagg you mention?), which suggests that the more traditional shape and the active electronics may make a difference.
Perhaps you could point us to the exact models you are talking about, for comparison?

[surfinbernard]

Thanks for the reply Bluejay, these are the two I was looking at, cheapest of the cheap

[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_eub_500_sb_electric_upright.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_eub_500_sb_electric_upright.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/stagg_edb_34_vbr.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/stagg_edb_34_vbr.htm[/url]

[TheRev]

As with everything, you get what you pay for. I've seen some Staggs with awful quality control (poor finish, misaligned tuners, bridges, side dots) while others have been close in quality to the Aria SWB lite 1 on which they're based, so I guess it would be wise to buy something you can actually check, rather than just buying online. The Harley Benton bass is essentially a rebadged Palatino - again there are design niggles and cheap components, but there's a comprehensive modding thread over on Talkbass which has lots of tips on improving the sound and playability.

As for the disappointed/excellent value for money question........ the answer depends on your expectations. These basses certainly aren't excellent value for money in that they don't sound as good as or are better made than EUBs costing twice or three times as much (Aria/Bespoke/NS/Bassix etc.). But they are affordable and the next price point is the £900-1000 range. They don't sound amazing, but they aren't awful. They're not unplayable but they're not amazing either. They're budget £300 basses in a market where a decent set of strings can be £250.

Soundwise, they're all much the same at that price point - a decent set of (IMHO, nylon) strings and good double bass playing technique will go a long way to making any EUB sound more like a double bass. On the other hand, you can achieve much the same tone with a fretless electric bass, a set of Rotosound tru-bass strings and a slab of foam wedged under the strings near the bridge.


What sound are you actually looking for? One of the cheap EUBs would sound fine in a folk or bluegrass/trad type setting where you just want a thump with a bit of tone behind it. If you're looking for a brighter,harmonically complex jazz or classical tones, then you may out grow your cheap EUB pretty quickly.

At the end of the day though, if you've got a budget of £300ish, then the Stagg or the Thomann basses are the only way to go. They won't sound like a 'real' double bass but at least you'll be playing! If you[b] really[/b] get into it, then at some point, you will hanker for something that sounds and plays better - it's just human nature.

[Silvia Bluejay]

OK - I can't comment on the Stagg as it's actually different from my NXT. As for the Harley Benton, yes, that's exactly what I've got, only in black rather than sunburst, as I wasn't sure whether the paint job it might look cheap, given the price.
The reason why I chose the cheapest was that I wanted to make it left-handed by myself - which I did with reasonable success - without losing a cartload of money if somethng went wrong. My comments above still stand. You get what you pay for, I guess.

[NJE]

I dont know if this will be any help, but I was in the same position a while ago. I am a bass player and really loved the sound and idea of getting an upright but didnt have the space for one. I looked around at all the normal cheaper models like Harley Bentons and the Staggs and I was quite impressed by the Stagg for the money but there were just too many quality issues and I was not prepared to do the modifications that most people do to them to get them to a good playing standard. I never actually tried a Harley Benton but have heard mixed reviews.

Instead I jumped straight in and bought a secondhand NS NXT upright as all reviews were positive and in my eyes I dont think I will ever out grow it, its a high quality instrument. I can honestly say it is probably the most beautiful instrument I have ever owned. It has a lovely sound, not quite like a real acoustic upright but good enough for my needs. The build and finish is sublime and It's rock solid as well and I have no fear of slinging it in the gig bag and travelling with it. Its also very compact and fits very easily in my Polo.

I have seen NS WAV uprights on here for as low as £350 in the past, the NXT's are a little more normally but well worth it and I am sure you would be able to sell it on very easily if you didnt like it. Well worth the extra money over a Stagg in my opinion but......go and try as many as you can. A few shops have the Staggs and I knwo Bass Direct have NS uprights you can try.

[Silvia Bluejay]

I adore my NXT (which cost around a grand) but it sounds and feels nothing like a real DB - the £300 HB is closer to a double bass in shape, sound and - er - unwieldiness

Edited June 27, 2012 by bluejay

[JPJ]

I must have been extremely lucky when I got my Stagg because quite honestly, its got no real quality issues. Mine was bought second hand from an experienced DB player who had changed the strings and sorted some of the minor niggles. For what you pay for one of these, they are an absolute steal.

As to sounding like a DB, well mine does a pretty good impersonation of an amplified DB, especially when I play her through my PJB Briefcase combo. I'm limited to an EUB due to space issues and have tried more expensive NS EUB's but actually prefer the feel of the Stagg.

Oh and on a final plus point, mines all black and looks a sexy as sexy can be

[thunderbird13]

I bought a stagg a couple of months ago and TBH I'm pretty impressed by it , although the side markings can be open to interpetation !

The one drawback that I've found is getting the thing to balance , with an acoustic db you naturally rest the weight of the instrument on you but with the stagg you have to work a bit harder to work out how to stop the neck dive which will seriously knacker your arm. BUT at least you can take the stagg on the 8.15 am to Charing Cross without ending up in an argument - try doing that with an acoustic db

[Silvia Bluejay]

Does your Stagg come with a spacing bracket? I find that that can help you balance your instrument by allowing you to pull it towards yourself and still keep the correct distance for comfortable playing. (I've got a spacer for the HB, while the NXT doesn't need one as it's got its own tripod.)

[apa]

I found my Stagg to be pretty good quality to. Nothing broke, nothing miss aligned. The only things I had to do was file the nut amnd bridge slots down. Which is part of a set up anyway surely! The only real mod was to wrap the end post with some foam sheet to stop it rattling inside the body. Other than that I did nothing. Oh and a new set of strings. Show me any bass for £300 that you dont do any or all of that to anyway straight out the box.

It sounds 'like' an acoustic double bass. It isnt one so not all the complex tones are there. (As said above). Im realy happy though. Its great fun. Only issue Ive heard of with them is the machine heads are a little delicate and can break but they are stock open style elephant ears with slightly different posts. Stagg do replacements anyway.

One gripe? Mine is supposed to be black sparkle. You can count the sparkles on one hand

A

[bremen]

[quote name='apa' timestamp='1342697492' post='1739425']
I found my Stagg to be pretty good quality to. Nothing broke, nothing miss aligned. The only things I had to do was file the nut amnd bridge slots down. Which is part of a set up anyway surely! The only real mod was to wrap the end post with some foam sheet to stop it rattling inside the body. Other than that I did nothing. Oh and a new set of strings. Show me any bass for £300 that you dont do any or all of that to anyway straight out the box.

It sounds 'like' an acoustic double bass. It isnt one so not all the complex tones are there. (As said above). Im realy happy though. Its great fun. Only issue Ive heard of with them is the machine heads are a little delicate and can break but they are stock open style elephant ears with slightly different posts. Stagg do replacements anyway.

One gripe? Mine is supposed to be black sparkle. You can count the sparkles on one hand

A
[/quote]

Likewise...I also stuck a piece of foam under the strings south of the bridge. Haven't had a problem with end pin rattling. The ferrules into which one screws the spacing/leaning/support bracket thingy were loose but a drop of Evostik sorted that.

What sort of strings did you upgrade to, and how different was the sound/feel?

[fumps]

I got my lovely Stagg from our very own Artisan (A outstandingly handsome fella) from a beginners perspective it's a fantastic piece of kit. Although i have no experience with higher value instruments it is a EUB I cannot praise enough !

[artisan]

did i hear my name
the Stagg is a very good starting point & the one i sold to fumps is spot on,no quality issues at all & plays very well.
speaking of which how's it going fumps ? hope you're enjoying the beast.

[thunderbird13]

[quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1342696396' post='1739403']
Does your Stagg come with a spacing bracket? I find that that can help you balance your instrument by allowing you to pull it towards yourself and still keep the correct distance for comfortable playing. (I've got a spacer for the HB, while the NXT doesn't need one as it's got its own tripod.)
[/quote]

Ahh That is one problem , the arms dont fit into the holes properly . I did wedge the long one I but TBH I dont find it very useful.
I might give it another try though but TBH I didnt find it that comfortable

[fumps]

[quote name='artisan' timestamp='1342700727' post='1739525']
did i hear my name
the Stagg is a very good starting point & the one i sold to fumps is spot on,no quality issues at all & plays very well.
speaking of which how's it going fumps ? hope you're enjoying the beast.
[/quote]
Hi mate
Ooo now the beast is being a very nice change to my life mate.......have been in demand since the news got out that I have it, one band that I know has a good following and are keen to get an upright player (Especially me because I know the singer & she's been after me for a while) & another that have some very interesting ideas.

Since I started playing the upright it kind has forced me to take my understanding of music further (Which is a very good thing) and also taken my bass guitar playing further.....I have improved vastly as a bass player mate & I am still chuffed to bits with the Upright you sold me. I took it round to my mates a few weeks ago for a jam & he just stood there with his mouth open we then played till my arms fell off, he kept saying that because of the upright sound it was egging him on lol .......I'm loving peoples reactions of just telling people you play upright.

The only thing I regret about this is not doing it earlier & I cannot recommend enough making the change.

[bremen]

[quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1342702245' post='1739566']
Ahh That is one problem , the arms dont fit into the holes properly . I did wedge the long one I but TBH I dont find it very useful.
I might give it another try though but TBH I didnt find it that comfortable
[/quote]

I can't play it at all without the rest, plucking just makes it spin on the spike so the left hand has to stop that as well as the non-trivial task of holding the strings down in tune.

That's the long one I'm talking about, the one that presses against your sixpack. I don't see the point of the shorter one and don't use it...maybe one day if I venture up the board into (hushed tones) [i]thumb position[/i] I might find what it's for.

Also, all of what Fumps says in the above. I'm playing more and more of the set on it, and the band and audiences always prefer it. Really teaches that 'more is less'. And yes, it does improve the EB playing. Win! Win!

[thunderbird13]

well at the moment I sort of rest it against my thigh and lean it backwards a bit and it seems to work . I'll experiment with the arm a bit more

[bremen]

Each to his own, but you'll probably find it easier to stand a bit farther from it, back and sideways.

[thunderbird13]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1342702269' post='1739568']
Hi mate
Ooo now the beast is being a very nice change to my life mate.....
The only thing I regret about this is not doing it earlier & I cannot recommend enough making the change.

[/quote]

I'm pleased your enjoying it - TBH I havent had that much time to devote to it and its taken me a long time to get used to holding it for more that 5 mins without my arms getting tired - hence my experimenting with holding it in different positions

Edited July 19, 2012 by thunderbird13

[apa]

[quote name='bremen' timestamp='1342698023' post='1739436']
Likewise...I also stuck a piece of foam under the strings south of the bridge. Haven't had a problem with end pin rattling. The ferrules into which one screws the spacing/leaning/support bracket thingy were loose but a drop of Evostik sorted that.

What sort of strings did you upgrade to, and how different was the sound/feel?
[/quote]

A bit of foam!!! Have you no taste sir!! THIS is what you need [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/160704-accessorise-your-eub-with-this-seasons-must-have-string-damper/page__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/160704-accessorise-your-eub-with-this-seasons-must-have-string-damper/page__fromsearch__1[/url]

I put Spirocore's on. Now Im a total newb to uprights so I have no idea whether they sound relatively good or not. All I know is they do sound nice to me. They should do at the price Frankly the strings that my Stagg came with where absolute rubbish. Had lumps and bumps in them. Actually one thing to note also is the string length. The Stagg has a very long bridge to anchor distance and the Spirocores only just fitted.

A

[bremen]

That looks great. The ceramic sombrero behind the bass in the pic confused me for a second...

These?
http://www.stringmail.co.uk/dbass.htm

[apa]

[quote name='bremen' timestamp='1342710364' post='1739772']
That looks great. The ceramic sombrero behind the bass in the pic confused me for a second...

These?
[url="http://www.stringmail.co.uk/dbass.htm"]http://www.stringmail.co.uk/dbass.htm[/url]
[/quote]

Ill double check the pack when Im home. Oh and its a very big wooden plate btw

A

[bremen]

[quote name='apa' timestamp='1342711515' post='1739800']
Ill double check the pack when Im home. Oh and its a very big wooden plate btw

A
[/quote]

It'd keep the sun off your head anyway.

Thanks for the strings info. Strings on mine are, well, OK...feel like the flats on my EB but don't sound very double-bassy.

[fumps]

[quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1342705240' post='1739638']
I'm pleased your enjoying it - TBH I havent had that much time to devote to it and its taken me a long time to get used to holding it for more that 5 mins without my arms getting tired - hence my experimenting with holding it in different positions
[/quote]
Hi mate It took me about two weeks of experimenting every day till i found the right feel for me (Giggidy)
It's kind of like coming through the eye of a storm.....shoulder pain, hurting arms & then one night I played for 1 hour solid with literally no pain. at first I was confused but then I realised that "It" had clicked !!!

It takes time but it just clicks

I found this helped as well
[url="http://teachers.saschina.org/lhu/posture-for-double-bass/"]http://teachers.saschina.org/lhu/posture-for-double-bass/[/url]