The Illusive BIG Sound

[Davy]

I've been playing bass guitar for about 20 years and this problem has puzzled me for all of that time. Why is it that no matter what power bass rig I use, it never sounds as loud or as powerful as a bass line played on a recorded track played through my PA system. I have also tried my bass DI'd through the PA and that is nowhere near as powerful as a recorded track played through the same PA.

I have no problem getting a nice tone on my bass amp at low volume but it always breaks up when I try to push it to a giggable volume.

This has brought me close to packing in playing live bass a number of times and has caused me to chop and change my bass and amp set up on a regular basis.

Anyone else had this problem?

[Mr. Foxen]

Compression.

[Davy]

My current amp(TC Electronics BH500) has compression and that was one of the main reasons why I bought it but it still can't match the sound of a compressed audio track played through my PA. The compression used on studio tracks must be better I guess?

[Mr. Foxen]

There are tons of parameters to compression, including multiband stuff. Basically a whole bunch of fiddling and you can get it, or you can push a valve power section just hard enough and it does it naturally.

[Davy]

Any suggestions for a good compressor unit?

I think my problem has been that for most of my playing career I've been a bass player/lead vocalist and by the time i've set up the PA there's been very little time to mess about with my amp. I guess I should find a decent compressor(the TC compressor is just a one knob level adjustment) and take my bass amp to a practice room and just mess about with it at gig volume.

[xgsjx]

In most instances, what sounds good at home doesn't fit well when put in a band situation & turned up.
You need to spend a little time with your band playing with your EQs (on instruments & amps) & getting everything sitting in place.

[Bassman Steve]

I must say that I had a bit of a eureka moment when listening (on Youtube) to the bass part from Bohemian Rhapsody. The sound on that has always been my blueprint for bass (and if you're lurking John, any chance of buying the tort scratchplate off the bass you sprayed black?).

I would guess that the Youtube clip is the dry sound of the combination of DI and the two amps (Acoustic and Hiwatt) but the sound is nothing like that on the record. I think Mr Foxen has it on the head with compression as the best likely answer but that was it came home to me just how big a difference it makes.

That said, a 2x18 sure helps!!

[bigjohn]

I've found the Rane DC24 very handy for getting a BIG sound at a lower volume. Multiband compression / limiting / expanding is where it's at.

Also comes in useful for tailoring to room / stage acoustics.

[brensabre79]

The problem with comparing the sound on a record is that the whole mix is compressed so the level of a single instrument within that mix will vary considerably depending on what else is around it.

The classic example with bass guitars is where it ducks out of the way of the kick drum (also called masking), then as soon as the sound of the kick drum fades (very quickly) the bass guitar takes the tonal space. The result is a perceived sound with attack and sustain that come from two different instruments. Without putting the entire band through the PA - like at a big gig (and even then its unlikely) you're not going to recreate this effect, even through a big rig.

The bass you're listening to on a record has more than likely been compressed a number of times in a number of ways.
1. through the amp/pedals at recording
2. Studio compressor to go to tape (if its an older record)
3. Tape compression (again old stuff - yes tape does compress the sound!)
4. individual compressor at mixdown coming off tape
5. Grouped with other sounds (e.g. guitars) at mixdown
6. Final Mix compression - (usually multi-band these days)
7. Mastering compression
8. Possibly compressed going through your system too depending on the gear and how loud you've got it.

[LawrenceH]

Bass direct into a really nice mixing desk, recorded using a well-calibrated tape machine driven hard so it's close to saturating, then run through a nice multiband compressor or several, is a sound that I would dearly love to be able to emulate with a £100 pedal!
I suspect more recordings use tape or at least tape emulation for the bass than just the old stuff since the effect is so damn good.

There is generally a lot less actual bass frequency on recordings, the fat tone is mostly upper-bass/midrange. This is important when setting up compressors to emulate that sound since without some pre-compression filtering the bass will tend to dominate the signal, you need to EQ down the bass until it's more balanced as far as the compressor's concerned, then adjust EQ to taste post-compression to bring back that live 'oomph'.

Btw does anyone produce a decent tape emulator in pedal form?

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1336139935' post='1641529']
Compression.
[/quote]

+1. Studio compression, plus good mixing.

There`s a thread on here, in the general section, about isolated bass tracks. Give the songs a listen. Quite surprising how what sounds like a really deep warm bass sound is actually quite middy and scratchy, with no real bottom end. But in the mix, well it works.

[andyonbass]

Go and see a few bands around your local pub circuit, and if you hear what sounds good to you, go and pick the brains of the bass player and check out his gear. It took me a long time to learn that what you hear on stage can be totally different to what the punters hear out front.

[AMPEG]

That's the rub, unless you,ve got world class fallback equipment and a sound engineer to match you never hear what the punters hear. I've been in a situation where I've done the sound check, fiddled with my eq and been reasonably happy only to lose it all when the band plays. Then convinced that my sound is crap have been told...'man the bass was really kicking'. It also matters what sound you want if you want kick use solid state or hybrid and if you want thump or growl use an all tube.

[mrtcat]

Your studio recordings have been engineered by a pro no doubt with a heap of experience and tons of nice toys at his / her disposal. They've also had the time and control to adjust the individual sound of every member of the band to fit it all together well. A top notch live engineer would probably get you pretty close to the nirvana you seek. It would however need a solid pa system with a good mixing desk. Most portable pa systems will struggle unless they're a high end set up with subs, tops, 1000s of watts, rta Eq system, nice mic pre's etc etc etc.
A very good start for you if you're using a decent pa system would be something like a sansamp bass driver pedal or similar.