TG Flatline Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) Anyone got one or used one that can let me know how they found it on bass? I've steered clear of all filters (except phasers) thus far, but I fancy getting a bit dirty and building one of these. I imagine the HP mode is largely useless on bass, though like I say I am relatively new to this so any insight would be useful! To give you more of an idea, I'm predominantly interested in the auto-wah side of things for now, but I didn't think it would be worth building or buying something that would be limited to just that, and I can build the Meatball for less than I'd buy an auto-wah anyway, and it would have more features... Also worth noting that because I'd be building it, I can add more to it. One option would be to have a blendable octave-down in the same box (much like the setup on the EHX Micro Synth) and a Muff or other fuzz hardwired into the FX Loop. Any advice/warnings/mockery greatly appreciated! Edited April 11, 2012 by TG Flatline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerific Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 My advice would be to use this PCB: http://musicpcb.com/pcbs/meat-sphere/ and build it with board mount pots and switches to save yourself a massive hassle with offboard wiring. I haven't tried it so I can't say how well it works on bass. Also, I think it's a lovetone product rather than lovepedal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG Flatline Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 That's the one I'll be using Not sure where I got Lovepedal from, I have corrected the mistake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerific Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Easy mistake to make For the octaver you should check out the madbean lowrider, I've heard lots of good things about the pearl octaver it's based on. This seems like an awesome project though, you should post some pictures when you get it started Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 With my Qtron leaving the building today I'm looking at building a McMeat (Meatball clone) at the minute, but simplifying a lot of the switching options that i know i won't use which is why i'm not going the PCB route. Building on perfboard to start with. I'd like to make it super small (1590B size) but I may have to go to the 1590BB instead. I haven't decided whether I want to keep the fx loop yet, which will have a big effect on enclosure size - if I keep it it will be buffered bypass so I can use the fx in the loop without the envelope - all sounds very Groove Regulator doesn't it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG Flatline Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Excellent, let me know how you get on, I shall do likewise! I'm almost certainly going to hardwire a Muff into the FX loop on mine on a toggle rather than have an external loop, but I like the buffered bypass idea too so will be interested to see that! I've got the Madbean octaver on my board, it's ace. I've not found much need for two octaves down, but you can get some great tones by balancing 1 down, clean and 1 up. Madbean are going to do an octave down that will fit in a 1590A soon as well, that will be a must have. That would be the one i'd want housed in with the Meatball, purely for space within the box - the Madbean Pearl clone is a big board, needs a 1590BB on it's own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Just get a 3 Leaf Audio GR2 It is effectively a Meatball without the bad sounds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lxxwj Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1334309655' post='1614111'] Just get a 3 Leaf Audio GR2 It is effectively a Meatball without the bad sounds! [/quote] +1, that thing sounds amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='TG Flatline' timestamp='1334305042' post='1613991'] Excellent, let me know how you get on, I shall do likewise! I'm almost certainly going to hardwire a Muff into the FX loop on mine on a toggle rather than have an external loop, but I like the buffered bypass idea too so will be interested to see that! I've got the Madbean octaver on my board, it's ace. I've not found much need for two octaves down, but you can get some great tones by balancing 1 down, clean and 1 up. Madbean are going to do an octave down that will fit in a 1590A soon as well, that will be a must have. That would be the one i'd want housed in with the Meatball, purely for space within the box - the Madbean Pearl clone is a big board, needs a 1590BB on it's own! [/quote] I'm bidding on the original Pearl Octaver on ebay at the mo and if that goes south I'm thinking a mad bean lowrider might be a fun project [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1334309655' post='1614111'] Just get a 3 Leaf Audio GR2 It is effectively a Meatball without the bad sounds! [/quote] Yeah but where's the fun in that! Admittedly some people don't like the smell of solder, or the risk of burning their fingers a little... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Looking at the mcmeat layout it should be possible to split the circuit over 2 smaller sandwiched boards to keep it to a smaller footprint. It'll be a REALLY tight fit in a 1590B... Probably have to use those 9mm alpha pots. We'll see. I have some perf board, a 1590B and 1590BB at home somewhere so I'll maybe have a go at laying it out to fit in the smaller one. Really it's not a big issue - I'm replacing a big box qtron after all - I've seen smaller cars in Japan... Edited April 13, 2012 by Bigwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG Flatline Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1334320552' post='1614447'] Looking at the mcmeat layout it should be possible to split the circuit over 2 smaller sandwiched boards to keep it to a smaller footprint. It'll be a REALLY tight fit in a 1590B... Probably have to use those 9mm alpha pots. We'll see. I have some perf board, a 1590B and 1590BB at home somewhere so I'll maybe have a go at laying it out to fit in the smaller one. Really it's not a big issue - I'm replacing a big box qtron after all - I've seen smaller cars in Japan... [/quote] This would be rather impressive! I also agree there would be very little fun in not making it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='TG Flatline' timestamp='1334327620' post='1614669'] This would be rather impressive! I also agree there would be very little fun in not making it!!! [/quote] Haven't done it yet! Obviously lots of the switching options will be hardwired - I think it's a toss up between range and sweep direction as to which stays on the top face, but i'm leaning towards a switch to select between high and low range. I'm not a fan of switches on the side of pedals and really for my use I'll only be after one or 2 sounds. So 6 pots and 1 switch on a 1590B - starting to realise how mad that sounds!!! Further trimming may be required, but I'll decide once I've the circuit built what's staying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Thornybank has one which is mint. I've tried it and it's hugely tweakable but £££'s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 [quote name='krispn' timestamp='1334855454' post='1622481'] Thornybank has one which is mint. I've tried it and it's hugely tweakable but £££'s [/quote] Yeah the price is one thing (although that seems to be the going rate for the Meatball) but the size is beyond what I think of as acceptable for my pedal board - the big box qtron had to go for the same reason and i think the meatball is bigger again! I think the "meatball into a 1590B" is out of the question after a bit of measuring and drawing (without going to surface mount components!) but I have a BYOC filter I built a few years ago which is in a slightly larger enclosure of a similar format and that might be a possibility while still retaining all 6 pots and a switch or 2. Just have to find out what it is! Investigations continue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) The 1590B is back on after a bit more thought and some drawing (and some inspirational 1590A builds over pn diystompboxes.com - wow!) but which switches to keep? Thinking of keeping range hi/lo, sweep up/down and band pass/low pass if I can get them all on there somewhere! Unfortunately the fx loop will go too... Edited April 25, 2012 by Bigwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technicality Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Here's a little recording I did with my build back when I made it a month or so ago (amateur musician who doesn't really know what they are doing alert!): [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSW4jEA6efo[/media] My box is a bit bigger than a 1590B, and it was a real squeeze to fit everything in. I saved a bit of space by using small slide switches instead of the rotary switch, but I had no space left at all when it was done. Without space for the battery it could have been a bit smaller though (the top section above the controls is basically just the battery). The main problem is squeezing all those pots into the box means everything else needs to be very flat. There is a mod you can do to the Colour pot that really improves the useful range for it. Worth looking up if you find (like I did) that only a few degrees near one extreme was useful. Here's my take on the controls after having mucked about with it a fair bit: I find the blend pretty useless for bass. The filter changes phase with frequency, so when you blend the clean in with it you get the same kind of effect as when you wire pickups out of phase (the sound thins considerably). I never really use the Hi pass/Band pass for bass. Since the blend doesn't really work I can't get much use from them. [Edit: It turns out the blend does work better in band/hi pass, and I just completely failed to notice this] I do use the up/down occasionally. You can get some interesting sounds out of it. All the other controls are fairly essential apart from maybe the sensitivity, which you can adjust by increasing the volume on the bass, and decreasing it on the amp to match. If you are using other pedals though that may not be an option. If I wanted to make another one even smaller and just for bass, I'd remove the blend, battery, hi/lo/band switch and maybe sensitivity and the up/down if I absolutely had to, and then go shopping for the smallest shallowest pots and switches I could find. Oh also this is where I got all the harder to find parts (very reasonable postage): [url="http://doctortweek.co.uk/"]http://doctortweek.co.uk/[/url] Hope this helps. Edited April 26, 2012 by Technicality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Cheers Technicality! Nice YT clip. That'll explain why Spencer at 3 Leaf chose to leave off the blend on the original Groove Regulator then - couldn't understand that decision. Good to know. I'm assuming you use your blend set fully 'wet' then? I'll be building the full circuit to start with so I can play with it and see what works for me and what I 'set-and-forget'. I can't see me using the 'down' sweep going on my previous experiences, and 4 options for Range is more than I'll use so I'll choose 2 and put them on a toggle switch. If the blend had been any good I'd have kept the Bandpass option, but by the sound of things it'll be permanently hardwired to low pass! I've just measured up a drilling template and if I have to use all 6 knobs and 3 switches it should all fit ok if I use 9mm alpha pots and the smallest knobs I can find - it'll be SERIOUSLY tight though. The battery I decided to discard very early on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technicality Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Yeah, most of the time even when putting something other than bass through it I leave it fully wet. The strange thing about this circuit is that there always seems to be more than one way to get what you want. Changing the intensity and colour can tone down the effect a bit like a blend, and you can get similar sounds at different range settings by adjusting the sensitivity, intensity and colour. Sometimes the bandwidth switch doesn't seem to do anything, and sometimes it toggles between smooth and this bubbly type sound. It definitely feels like a circuit that could get by on less controls, but I wouldn't know which to take out due to the way they all interact. Good luck with your build. For all its eccentricities I found the results to be more than worth the trouble, there are some fantastic sounds you can get out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 That's useful info - I'd assumed the bandwidth switch was going to be useless for my purposes and wasn't going to include it at all! Even more resin to do a fully featured build before I trim the fat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technicality Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 You probably can take it out. I think the bubbling sound only happened to me playing above the lowest octave under fairly specific settings and when I played the notes with exactly the right attack. Before that it didn't seem to do anything whatsoever and I was considering removing it and using the switch for something else. I quite liked the sound though and might want to make it intentionally sometime, so I'm keeping the switch. I think the full build idea to test is a good one, as with a different bass and a different person playing it, it wouldn't surprise me if yours behaved a bit differently to mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 What vactrols did you use in your build? I'm leaning towards the NSL32 R3 instead of the VTL5C3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technicality Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I used VTL5c3's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) I'll maybe try the NSL32 first as farnell have them. You might be interested in reading this with regards to the blend issue you mentioned: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=54508.140 You could mod your pedal very simply to gain a more useful blend control - in my case since I'll be replacing the rotaty mode switch with a spdt for band pass/high pass, I can add a tiny little daughter board with a single opamp and half a dozen resistors on it and use a dpdt switch instead, using the other pole to flip an opamp with unity gain from inverting to non-inverting and just stick that circuit in line with one side of the blend pot. In theory... Edited April 26, 2012 by Bigwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technicality Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I did a bit of reading and experimentation trying to work this all out after I'd built it and discovered the problem. I'm pretty sure that guy is not quite correct. If I remember correctly, the filter in the schematic is called a "state variable filter". The band pass is 180 degrees out of phase (I'd imagine why some envelope pedals have a "mix" mode that mixes the bandpass and clean). The high and low pass however, change phase depending on the frequency. One will be somewhere between 0-180, and the other is somewhere between 180-360 degrees out of phase. Different pitches will generate different phases for these, so an inverter won't cut it. In the end I decided against the headache of trying to cram an extra inverter into an already built pedal just so I could blend the band pass without it thinning out. I'd be very interested to hear how useful you find blending the band pass if you do try it though. If it turns out to be useful I might attempt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) For the sake of a few pennies and an extra few minutes with the soldering iron I'll maybe give it a blast. Just looking at my reduced perfboard layout there's enough room to fit it all on the same board - just! Edited April 26, 2012 by Bigwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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