Guest MoJo Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I currently run through a Trace Elliot 1215 combo and have always set the input control of the amp so that the red light flickers on occasionally and then set the output volume to suit the band. I was watching another band recently and the bass player was using a Trace Elliot AH600 head (basically the sam amp as in my combo). He'd got the output control all the way up and was setting his volume using the input control. Does anyone else do this and what are the advantages/disadvantages? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Good morning, Mark... I think I would stick with your method, which imho is more technically 'correct'. The 'input' level is set to match the variations between different instruments and the optimum requirements for the amp (or rather, pre-amp...). Once set, the actual volume needed (different for a small practice room or a large hall, or outdoors...) would be dictated by the 'output' level. There are variants, where the input level determines the amount of distortion, or overload, going into the pre-amp. The principle is similar, however; once the 'sound' needed is dialled in from the input, it's the output which is used to obtain the volume required for the venue. The player that you saw doing the opposite will be pretty well unable to get the 'sound' wanted from his method. If the output is always at max, the adjustments made to the input (to get the volume required...) will change greatly the signal into the pre-amp. At some venues he'll have little input (small gig...), so a 'clean' sound; on an outdoor stage, if he wants more volume and turns up the input to obtain it, he'll start to overload the pre-amp, and the 'clean' will be gone. I doubt that a discerning set of ears would find that ideal. Are you sure that it was a bassist, and not a guitarist..? ;-) Hope this helps, and subject to correction or extention from others... Edited March 16, 2012 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 If you want a clean sound, turn the master right up and use the gain to set the volume. Turning the gain up to just below clipping and using the master to set your volume gives you more of an overdriven tone. Ampeg recommend the master full on approach. I always go for a clean sound so my master is always set higher than my gain. [font=Arial][size=2] [/size][/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shizznit Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 From my experience owning both of those Trace amps and lots of others brands with a gain/input and master volume your method of balancing the input and output levels is the best way forward because you will reserve more headroom that way and you will work the preamp harder to get that lovely Trace tone. Trace amps are very clean and flat in nature even when you do try to crank up the input signal, but are sods for clipping and some owners don't like turning the gain level too high to avoid that. I find if you use more of the solid state gain instead of the tube gain it is not as prone to clip as much even when the red LED on the input meter starts to flicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1331900439' post='1580603'] I thought if you didn't set the input level right then the EQ and on board compressor doesn't work as it should? [/quote] I'd never considered that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I've found that proper setting of the input on my Evo amp has a significant impact on the effectiveness of the valve drive and the compressor. Cheers Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Optimum gain settings (your method) mean driving the rest of the circuits to the best of their design ability and in my opinion will always sound better than altering your whole gain structure simply because you want to alter the volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1331939518' post='1581355'] Optimum gain settings (your method) mean driving the rest of the circuits to the best of their design ability and in my opinion will always sound better than altering your whole gain structure simply because you want to alter the volume. [/quote] +1 Absolutely bang on. Sometimes its worth backing off the inout gain a tad more than necessary and bringing up the power amp volume to compensate, some circuits do sound a tad sweeter like this IME when recording the amp but its marginal at best. The general rule of thumb for gain staging an amp is master down very low or off, set the input gain to the clip light (the exact detail of which varies between manufacturer, DO check the manual), then bring up the master up to required volume. Everything is running with the best signal to noise ratio possible for a start, the power amp is being delivered an optimum signal and so you can reach the maximum amp volume, and any inbuilt compressor (ugh!) will be fed the right amount of gain and therefore do something (probably horrible, but I digress)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I wouldn't be driving ther power stage of a TE amp to the max as I wouldn't expect it to be a good enough amp to do that very well. The OP's current way of doing sounds the best to me. I'd suggest either the other bass player had a certain sound in mind..but he retains less control over it and therefore it might get quirky from gig to gig, or he doesn't know any differnet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewrx7 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Presumably the instructions Trace themselves supply (set input gain to amber, then adjust volume via the master) is the best approach for the best use of their head? Why would a manufacturer tell you to use their head in a non-optimised manner - a bit daft if they did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Thanks for this thread. I've always had input gain high and adjusted the volume via master volume. After reading this thread, I thought I'd try it the other way round at practice tonight. Sounds great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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