potentially stupid question :) re barrel jack socket, jack needs pulled out a wee bit to work

[garry]

As above really - the barrel jack on my corvette was a bit flaky, a common fault on warwicks i'm told. i got a replacement and soldered it in seemingly without a hitch, tested and seemed to work fine - yippee!

then at a gig recently, at the soundcheck - no sound..... check amp - not on mute, check tuner pedal - on bypass... everything plugged in. checked various connections then found that the sound came thru full blast if i pulled the cable jack around 4-5mm out of the socket on the bass. When i pushed it fully in it cut out again

I bodged a solution on the night by sticking a pound coin and a 5p under the angled jack, to set the distance, then putting a hell of a lot of tape over that to hold the jack still.

Is it likely ive cocked up the soldering (looked good to me ) ? or is there something else i could check, before taking it to a man who knows what he's doing?

cheers

G

[icastle]

If you hadn't checked it out and found it working after you fitted it, it would sound to me like you've managed to get the 'ring' and 'tip' connections the wrong way round.

If it worked prior to the practice then you've got a dodgy socket.

EDIT: It's possible to damage those sockets if you overheat them whilst soldering.

Edited March 14, 2012 by icastle

[flyfisher]

A friend had something similar on his electro-acoustic guitar. Turned out that the spring contacts of the socket had lost some of their spring. I bent then back for him with some long-nose pliers and they've been fine ever since.

Whether this is possible does depend on the construction of the socket though.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1331741362' post='1578116']
EDIT: It's possible to damage those sockets if you overheat them whilst soldering.
[/quote]

+1

As a long term Warwick user, I can confirm that Warwick barrel jacks are/can be as much use as chocolate fireguards.

However, as to your problem; if you have fitted a decent quality jack socket (I'll assume that it is a good quality sealed barrel type) and soldered it correctly (it has worked so I'd assume so), I'd certainly be considering whether you've appled excessive heat and/or for a prolonged period and the internal insulating spacers have deformed and are shorting out. Only you will know how much grief, if any, it gave you to fit the socket, so that may give you a clue as to if that is the problem. It isn't unheard of for brand new components to fail and that could equally be the issue.

Just out of interest the end of the barrel jack isn't shorting on an internal pot/component... actually scratch that as you described that pulling the jack plug part of the way out solved it which means that it is internal to the new component.

[icastle]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1331750396' post='1578320']
As a long term Warwick user, I can confirm that Warwick barrel jacks are/can be as much use as chocolate fireguards.
[/quote]

I'm not a Warwick user but, in fairness to them, it's pretty much a universal issue with that particular design of socket.
I love then and hate them equally.

[BILL POSTERS]

Dunno anything about Warks, but it sounds to me like you have fitted a stereo socket and used the wrong terminal for the tip.

Stereo sockets are sometimes used as a switch, ie, when you plug a mono lead in, the middle ring gets connected to the outer.

Just a thought.

[icastle]

[quote name='BRANCINI' timestamp='1331752299' post='1578355']
Dunno anything about Warks, but it sounds to me like you have fitted a stereo socket and used the wrong terminal for the tip.

Stereo sockets are sometimes used as a switch, ie, when you plug a mono lead in, the middle ring gets connected to the outer.

Just a thought.
[/quote]

That was my first thought as well - having the ring and tip connections reversed would cause exactly what Garry describes, but he said that it worked after he fitted it.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1331751869' post='1578349']
I'm not a Warwick user but, in fairness to them, it's pretty much a universal issue with that particular design of socket.
I love then and hate them equally.
[/quote]

I know what you mean but honestly, the original 'W' sockets rarely last long and yet Switchcraft replacements tend to last... well I've got Switchcrafts that are now 15+ year old (conversely I once got some genuine 'W' replacements as part of a deal and I've replaced 2 out of 3 of those within a year or two).

[quote name='BRANCINI' timestamp='1331752299' post='1578355']
Dunno anything about Warks, but it sounds to me like you have fitted a stereo socket and used the wrong terminal for the tip.

Stereo sockets are sometimes used as a switch, ie, when you plug a mono lead in, the middle ring gets connected to the outer.

Just a thought.
[/quote]

It does sound like it but I'd have said that if that was the case then it wouldn't have worked when he originally tested it!

[The Bass Doc]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1331752830' post='1578372']
It does sound like it but I'd have said that if that was the case then it wouldn't have worked when he originally tested it!
[/quote]

Possible explanation - the first (quick?) test carried out with the jack plug not pushed fully home.

Just a thought.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1331753313' post='1578385']
Possible explanation - the first (quick?) test carried out with the jack plug not pushed fully home.

Just a thought.
[/quote]

Good point! Always best not to assume.

[BILL POSTERS]

Same lead ????

Or as he was testing it at home, maybe a stereo lead - the law of Occams razor or something like that - Simple explanations first before thinking complex reasons oftem pays off.

Edited March 14, 2012 by BRANCINI

[icastle]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1331753313' post='1578385']
Possible explanation - the first (quick?) test carried out with the jack plug not pushed fully home.

Just a thought.
[/quote]

Could be

[flyfisher]

This is a bit difficult to describe but imagine the socket 'tip' contact. The plug is inserted and the shape of the tip initially pushes the socket contact out of the way. When the plug is fully home the socket contact springs back a little bit into the 'groove' of the plug tip. The socket contact not only makes electrical contact but it also holds the plug in place. All well and good.

But, over time, the socket contact may lose its 'springyness'. So, the plug is inserted and the tip pushes the socket contact out of the way as normal. but when the plug is fully inserted, the socket contact doesn't spring back far enough to make contact with the 'groove' of the plug tip - so the cable doesn't work. However, if the plug is pulled slightly out of the socket, the wider part of the plug tip again makes contact with the socket contact - then the cable works.

The solution is to slightly bend the socket contact so that it sticks further out into the socket shaft and will once again make contact with the 'groove' of the plug tip when fully inserted. But if the contact has lost all springyness then a new socket is needed.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1331758146' post='1578526']
This is a bit difficult to describe but imagine the socket 'tip' contact. The plug is inserted and the shape of the tip initially pushes the socket contact out of the way. When the plug is fully home the socket contact springs back a little bit into the 'groove' of the plug tip. The socket contact not only makes electrical contact but it also holds the plug in place. All well and good.

But, over time, the socket contact may lose its 'springyness'. So, the plug is inserted and the tip pushes the socket contact out of the way as normal. but when the plug is fully inserted, the socket contact doesn't spring back far enough to make contact with the 'groove' of the plug tip - so the cable doesn't work. However, if the plug is pulled slightly out of the socket, the wider part of the plug tip again makes contact with the socket contact - then the cable works.

The solution is to slightly bend the socket contact so that it sticks further out into the socket shaft and will once again make contact with the 'groove' of the plug tip when fully inserted. But if the contact has lost all springyness then a new socket is needed.
[/quote]

Doesn't work with the type that is generally fitted into Warwick basses as they are sealed and can't be bent back to make contact!

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-WARWICK-INPUT-STEREO-JACK-SPW50100C-1-4-6-3mm-STREAMER-THUMB-GUITAR-PART-/360441851869?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item53ec022fdd"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-WARWICK-INPUT-STEREO-JACK-SPW50100C-1-4-6-3mm-STREAMER-THUMB-GUITAR-PART-/360441851869?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item53ec022fdd[/url]

[icastle]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1331758680' post='1578551']
Doesn't work with the type that is generally fitted into Warwick basses as they are sealed and can't be bent back to make contact!
[/quote]

You can if you have the right tools.

I've managed to repair those barrel jacks a few times using these: [url="http://export.rsdelivers.com/product/rs/8-piece-spring-hook-set/0619200.aspx"]http://export.rsdelivers.com/product/rs/8-piece-spring-hook-set/0619200.aspx[/url].

However (yep, you knew there'd be a 'but' didn't you... ), every time you do it you weaken the contact and the time between repairs being needed gets smaller and smaller.

[flyfisher]

+2

[garry]

hi guys, thanks for all your input -

Yep i tested it after fitting the new barrel socket and all seemed fine, i was very careful to connect the wires up the same way as the existing socket, and given that it did work for a bit, i think i got that right. The new socket was one of the Maplin ones whick are neutrik

however - the idea of my damaging some of the internal components by getting too much heat into the socket when soldering is very much a possibility! Or perhaps a poor quality solder joint.

so i will 1. pop it open and re-check the terminals are connected to the rigth wires, 2. see if anything is shorting against any other components in the cavity (quite tight in there as the new barrel is longer than the original was).

if neither of these reveal any easy error, i will assume ive cooked the damn thing when soldering, and get a new one fitted by someone who knows what they're doing.

thanks for your help , i will update with the outcome to help anyone with the same issue in the future

cheers

Garry

[icastle]

[quote name='garry' timestamp='1331806315' post='1579048']
Yep i tested it after fitting the new barrel socket and all seemed fine, i was very careful to connect the wires up the same way as the existing socket, and given that it did work for a bit, i think i got that right. The new socket was one of the Maplin ones whick are neutrik
[/quote]

Probably a really daft question, but are you sure that the contacts on the Neutrik socket are laid out in the same order as the original Warwick one?

[mart]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1331831511' post='1579647']
Probably a really daft question, but are you sure that the contacts on the Neutrik socket are laid out in the same order as the original Warwick one?
[/quote]
That actually sounds like a pretty sensible question to me. Last time I changed one of these I think the tip/ring tags were pretty hard to tell apart on the Maplins socket, so I used a multimeter to work out which wire to connect to which.

[mybass]

[quote name='garry' timestamp='1331740726' post='1578095']
As above really - the barrel jack on my corvette was a bit flaky, a common fault on warwicks i'm told. i got a replacement and soldered it in seemingly without a hitch, tested and seemed to work fine - yippee!

then at a gig recently, at the soundcheck - no sound..... check amp - not on mute, check tuner pedal - on bypass... everything plugged in. checked various connections then found that the sound came thru full blast if i pulled the cable jack around 4-5mm out of the socket on the bass. When i pushed it fully in it cut out again

I bodged a solution on the night by sticking a pound coin and a 5p under the angled jack, to set the distance, then putting a hell of a lot of tape over that to hold the jack still.

Is it likely ive cocked up the soldering (looked good to me ) ? or is there something else i could check, before taking it to a man who knows what he's doing?

cheers

G
[/quote]

Barrel /female sockets are a problem. I've just today replaced a stereo one with a mono one (didn't have a battery running active pups where the 2nd positive connection connects to the battery when the jack plug is inserted).
The problem was apparent when I turned the jack cable lead and the signal cut out at a certain point in the turn. The mono barrel one seems to have cured this.
Also, I have found that some jack plugs are ever so slightly 'thinner' than say neutrik jack plugs when measured with a digital vernier gauge. This can lead to the jack plug being loose within the barrel. In fact it was a gold plated jack plug that was thinner than a normal neutrik jack plug.
Soundcraft barrel ones are pretty good.

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='mybass' timestamp='1331863689' post='1580195']
Also, I have found that some jack plugs are ever so slightly 'thinner' than say neutrik jack plugs when measured with a digital vernier gauge. This can lead to the jack plug being loose within the barrel. In fact it was a gold plated jack plug that was thinner than a normal neutrik jack plug.
Soundcraft barrel ones are pretty good.
[/quote]

I've heard this before and wondered if its actually a difference between metric 6.3mm jacks and imperial 1/4" jacks.

[BILL POSTERS]

I think the maplins one is Nutrik NYS2203. Have you tried looking on the interweb for a datasheet ?

Should tell you which terminal is which.

[tauzero]

If ring and tip were connected the wrong way round, it would only work in passive mode (with the plug pulled slightly out of the socket, so the plug tip contacted the socket ring).

[icastle]

[quote name='BRANCINI' timestamp='1331890124' post='1580348']
I think the maplins one is Nutrik NYS2203. Have you tried looking on the interweb for a datasheet ?

Should tell you which terminal is which.
[/quote]

I always use those as replacements.

The longest of the three terminals is the ground.
The shortest of the three terminals is the tip.
There are no prizes for working out which is the ring.

The sticking point I've found is trying to find documentation to show what sockets Warwick are using and if their contact layout matches the Neutrik.

Edited March 16, 2012 by icastle

[icastle]

[quote name='BRANCINI' timestamp='1331887945' post='1580310']
I've heard this before and wondered if its actually a difference between metric 6.3mm jacks and imperial 1/4" jacks.
[/quote]

6.25mm is the metric equivalent of 1/4".