Linus27 Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1327171879' post='1507455'] ... and here's another Jazz bass: [/quote] Is that not a PJ bass and a new breed of bass? If if its a copy of the original Fender Jazz then its a very bad one as it has the wrong pickup config and tone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 [quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1327177996' post='1507576'] Is that not a PJ bass and a new breed of bass? If if its a copy of the original Fender Jazz then its a very bad one as it has the wrong pickup config and tone? [/quote] It's got the offset body, the 1.5" nut, and it also says Fender Jazz Bass on it. I'd say it's in the family. As for tone, Jazz basses don't have only one tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc2009 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1327151909' post='1507033'] 'Fender' has changed hands multiple times, changed toolings, changed specs, changed staff.... what is the link between the current "FenderTM" and the basses Leo Fender made? apart from the trademark on the headstock? A current fender is just a copy of Leo Fender's idea. And it's an idea that many other luthiers and makers have been able- with different constraints- to pull off as well or better. Ranging from Steed bass, or the guy in israel, studiously copying every detail of how they made them in the 60's, to handmade basses made by teams of japanese wizards through to pickup makers spending their whole time perfecting 'that' sound in handmade offerings- through small workshops, and all the way up to mass produced CNC cut versions of the bass. Where are the FenderTM in that? who is more faithfully copying that idea? [/quote] This is the biggest load of sense I've heard talked on this forum, about Fender or any other brand to which you could apply the same mentality to. +1000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1327182595' post='1507668'] It's got the offset body, the 1.5" nut, and it also says Fender Jazz Bass on it. I'd say it's in the family. As for tone, Jazz basses don't have only one tone. [/quote] Ok but the original Jazz did not have a split Precision pickup so tonally it is not accurate to the original concept. If I went to a shop and asked for a Fender Jazz and got given that then I would be very annoyed. Yes it has the characteristics of the jazz but tonally and pickups make it a different beast. A bit like the difference between an analogue watch and a digital watch perhaps. Both watches, both with straps and round faces and both tell the time by different methods. Yes you can call it a Jazz but its not the original concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexbassman Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 [quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1327187347' post='1507719'] Ok but the original Jazz did not have a split Precision pickup so tonally it is not accurate to the original concept. If I went to a shop and asked for a Fender Jazz and got given that then I would be very annoyed. Yes it has the characteristics of the jazz but tonally and pickups make it a different beast. A bit like the difference between an analogue watch and a digital watch perhaps. Both watches, both with straps and round faces and both tell the time by different methods. Yes you can call it a Jazz but its not the original concept. [/quote] Agree it's not tonally accurate to the original, but that's true of many Fender Jazz's. This bass is made and sold by Fender and [u]they[/u] call it a Fender Jazz so why is that any less an 'official Jazz' than one sold by them 50 years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1327187347' post='1507719'] Ok but the original Jazz did not have a split Precision pickup so tonally it is not accurate to the original concept. If I went to a shop and asked for a Fender Jazz and got given that then I would be very annoyed. Yes it has the characteristics of the jazz but tonally and pickups make it a different beast. A bit like the difference between an analogue watch and a digital watch perhaps. Both watches, both with straps and round faces and both tell the time by different methods. Yes you can call it a Jazz but its not the original concept. [/quote] I'm not claiming that the Reggie Hamilton Jazz is the original concept, just that it's part of the family resemblance which are Jazz basses. Anyway, the 70s bridge pickup is in a slightly different place to the 60s bridge pickup. The so-called 'original' Jazz bass had VTVT controls and a dot rosewood fretboard, not VVT and maple. It also had felt string mutes and flatwound strings. And at least one of the 1959 prototypes had a soap bar pickup And it was called the Jazz bass because it copied the offset body design of the Jazzmaster. Edited January 22, 2012 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='sussexbassman' timestamp='1327190264' post='1507748'] Agree it's not tonally accurate to the original, but that's true of many Fender Jazz's. This bass is made and sold by Fender and [u]they[/u] call it a Fender Jazz so why is that any less an 'official Jazz' than one sold by them 50 years ago? [/quote] because FenderTM make copies of Leo Fender's designs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1327190738' post='1507751'] I'm not claiming that the Reggie Hamilton Jazz is the original concept, just that it's part of the family resemblance which are Jazz basses. Anyway, the 70s bridge pickup is in a slightly different place to the 60s bridge pickup. The so-called 'original' Jazz bass had VTVT controls and a dot rosewood fretboard, not VVT and maple. It also had felt string mutes and flatwound strings. And at least one of the 1959 prototypes had a soap bar pickup And it was called the Jazz bass because it copied the offset body design of the Jazzmaster. [/quote]some of the first did have VVT i thought... like the one in that picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1327190870' post='1507754'] some of the first did have VVT i thought... like the one in that picture [/quote] That prototype in the pic had VVT, although others too I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1327171632' post='1507449'] Here's a Jazz bass: [/quote]sorry but there not jazz basses.. why would you think they were? Edited January 22, 2012 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='sussexbassman' timestamp='1327190264' post='1507748'] Agree it's not tonally accurate to the original, but that's true of many Fender Jazz's. This bass is made and sold by Fender and [u]they[/u] call it a Fender Jazz so why is that any less an 'official Jazz' than one sold by them 50 years ago? [/quote]it doesnt matter what Fender do to the original.. just because Fender change it doesnt change what is an original concept.. i really cant see why there is any confusion in this thread?? a Fender jazzalike with a P pickup isnt a jazz bass... its a hybrid Edited January 22, 2012 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1327191620' post='1507758'] sorry but there not jazz basses.. why would you think they were? [/quote] Because it is, why would you think it wasn't. It's the late Berry Oakley's Fender Jazz Bass. It's had the neck pickup moved between the bridge pickup and the bridge, it's had a Hagstrom Bisonic pickup added (with VT controls). Customised it may be , but it's a customised Jazz bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) erm..... a jazz bass has 2 jazz pickups in either 2 positions.. that bass has neither... when you move or customise a pickup config, its a hybrid... that lovely bass is no longer a jazz bass.. i can bet it sounds very different... its like having a Ferrari and putting a Maserati engine in it.. it used to be a jazz bass, but someone has changed it and turned a jazz bass into something different.. it sound silly to be so pedantic and im sure i sound like a nerd, but the line has to be drawn somewhere, and that is what this thread is about.. bet it sound very cool though Edited January 22, 2012 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1327193011' post='1507770'] ... the line has to be drawn somewhere.. [/quote] True, and we're drawing it in different places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1327193011' post='1507770'] .. bet it sound very cool though [/quote] Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gDhR1R3S0s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSix Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1327150481' post='1507009'] Trouble is, even different versions of the Fender Jazz differ quite substantially, so you need to narrow down your benchmark, as a modern Standard US Fender is probably quite different in sound (it certainly is in spec) to a 62 re-issue.[/quote] Mmmmmmmm - the 62 reissue, the finest Jazz bass I have ever played is my Fender Jap 62 reissue. I would recommend it to anyone. Fantastic fast neck, punchy pickups and more comfort than you could find in Anna Nicole Smith's cleavage I think defining the Jazz will always be contentious so let's discuss our favourites and why... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='StraightSix' timestamp='1327193795' post='1507783'] ... I think defining the Jazz will always be contentious so let's discuss our favourites and why... [/quote] What's wrong with contentious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 what a band.. love midnight rider... sounds just like a jazz bass.. thanks for posting.. im sat here with head phones on listening to this great music... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightSix Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1327194000' post='1507785'] What's wrong with contentious? [/quote] Nothing but it's getting tedious reading " they should be like this" "No, they should be like that". The OP asked for the best example... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='StraightSix' timestamp='1327194235' post='1507788'] Nothing but it's getting tedious reading " they should be like this" "No, they should be like that". The OP asked for the best example... [/quote] He asked 'So what is a Jazz bass?' and 'What is the best example?'. I can't see that it's tedious, I thought it was an interesting discussion. But as I don't myself think there is a 'best example', I didn't bother answering that bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1327194045' post='1507786'] what a band.. love midnight rider... sounds just like a jazz bass.. thanks for posting.. im sat here with head phones on listening to this great music... [/quote] I'm doing the same, now that you got me started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 sorry totaly off topic but ET reminded me of this... awsome in every way.. sorry Linus... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp1nyDF9Wak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 i owned a american deluxe fender jazz 5 and i own a Overwater jazz 5. The overwater is only worse because its not as good looking (the fender had a transparent crimson red finish and a maple neck ) At everything else it is far better and that makes it better for gigs as it doesnt give me anything to worry about. My favourite jazz bass is my tokai though, as it does an amazing set of sounds and looks very cool. Havn't found any jazz bass i like more since i bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 are those Tokais that good then.. never played one... Japanese i take it? heard lots about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1327195143' post='1507806'] i owned a american deluxe fender jazz 5 and i own a Overwater jazz 5. The overwater is only worse because its not as good looking (the fender had a transparent crimson red finish and a maple neck ) At everything else it is far better and that makes it better for gigs as it doesnt give me anything to worry about. My favourite jazz bass is my tokai though, as it does an amazing set of sounds and looks very cool. Havn't found any jazz bass i like more since i bought it. [/quote] Funny, only today were my band complaining about me selling my Fender Jazz bass. I tried explaining to them that it played like a dog and also was starting to sound like one (figuratively speaking), and that my Lakland Darryl Jones 4 literally murders it on all accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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