How's Your Practising?

[Eight]

[quote name='tauzero' post='1253546' date='Jun 2 2011, 09:26 AM']Explain Mozart then.[/quote]
You mean that Austrian kid who's father was a musician, and who spent his early years watching his father teach his sister, before he himself started picking out notes and intervals?

Mozart was not [b]born[/b] a brilliant player/composer - he didn't sit down at the piano one day and suddenly write at his best. His early years were critical, as was his whole approach to learning.

Is it rare for kids to show that discipline, motivation and clarity of thought? Absolutely. But it doesn't prove the existence of some mysterious force behind his abilities.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Eight

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='scottkincaid' post='1253441' date='Jun 2 2011, 04:34 AM']Some people are better or more naturally talented than others.

For example, i have learned to play bass within two weeks, and i could now, pretty much play whatever you wanted; Funk, Indie, Rock, Metal ect.

Whereas my friend has never had drum lessons, and he can play them better than most drummers i have seen.

It just depends how musically inclined people are.[/quote]

All hail the troll king!

[scottkincaid]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1253520' date='Jun 2 2011, 09:08 AM']That's intriguing. To what standard would you say you can play those styles?[/quote]

Good standards, performing standards, but don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that I or anyone else IS musically talented, i'm just stating how shocked i am with how quickly i learned to play it, i don't have it 'mastered' like alot of you guys, especially the older experienced ones, but within two weeks of learning on my first bass, i was dragged down to a recording studio with my band to record a few songs, and i live in Manchester, and another friend of mine want's me to play for him, and most of they're gigs are at the academy's and that, mostly in London.

[scottkincaid]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1254064' date='Jun 2 2011, 02:47 PM']All hail the troll king![/quote]

Troll king?

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='scottkincaid' post='1254070' date='Jun 2 2011, 02:49 PM']Troll king?[/quote]

I was a puzzled about that, too.

[scottkincaid]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1254076' date='Jun 2 2011, 02:54 PM']I was a puzzled about that, too. [/quote]

I know, i might just sit here all-day until i find out the actual meaning of that post.
Hmm....

[LawrenceH]

Declaring on an internet forum that you're up to pro gigging standard on an instrument after 2 weeks, playing any style...if that doesn't count as trolling, what does?!

[scottkincaid]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1254092' date='Jun 2 2011, 03:01 PM']Declaring on an internet forum that you're up to pro gigging standard on an instrument after 2 weeks, playing any style...if that doesn't count as trolling, what does?![/quote]

Dude, go and check Jared Followill's Wikipedia.

He learned the bass a few weeks before recording and have a look at his basslines!?

And there are a few styles i can't fully do.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='scottkincaid' post='1254103' date='Jun 2 2011, 03:06 PM']Dude, go and check Jared Followill's Wikipedia.

He learned the bass a few weeks before recording and have a look at his basslines!?

And there are a few styles i can't fully do. [/quote]

Ah yes, I see now.

[scottkincaid]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1254118' date='Jun 2 2011, 03:12 PM']Ah yes, I see now.[/quote]

Yeah, he's the reason i play bass.

[Doddy]

[quote name='scottkincaid' post='1254103' date='Jun 2 2011, 03:06 PM']Dude, go and check Jared Followill's Wikipedia.

He learned the bass a few weeks before recording and have a look at his basslines!?[/quote]

You're not winning me over yet.

There are a lot of players who pick up a bass and join a band (or the other way around),doesn't make
them good.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1254320' date='Jun 2 2011, 05:35 PM']You're not winning me over yet.

There are a lot of players who pick up a bass and join a band (or the other way around),doesn't make
them good.[/quote]

Doddy, are you saying that Jared Followill wasn't a genre-spanning bass behemoth after a whole month of practice?

[Doddy]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1254351' date='Jun 2 2011, 06:01 PM']Doddy, are you saying that Jared Followill wasn't a genre-spanning bass behemoth after a whole month of practice?[/quote]

Far be it from me to suggest such a thing.......

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Marvin' post='1248461' date='May 28 2011, 05:36 PM']Does reading a book on theory count towards practice? I suppose it doesn't really does it [/quote]
I'd say it might count as long as what you'd been reading then informed your practice and your understanding of that practice.

[Kingy_who]

[quote name='Eight' post='1254058' date='Jun 2 2011, 02:43 PM']You mean that Austrian kid who's father was a musician, and who spent his early years watching his father teach his sister, before he himself started picking out notes and intervals?

Mozart was not [b]born[/b] a brilliant player/composer - he didn't sit down at the piano one day and suddenly write at his best. His early years were critical, as was his whole approach to learning.

Is it rare for kids to show that discipline, motivation and clarity of thought? Absolutely. But it doesn't prove the existence of some mysterious force behind his abilities.[/quote]

We're not talking about some mysterious force, we're talking about DNA and how they where raised in their early life, stuff that we can't change now, not with any amount of practice.

[Eight]

[quote name='Kingy_who' post='1254615' date='Jun 2 2011, 09:07 PM']We're not talking about some mysterious force, we're talking about DNA and how they where raised in their early life, stuff that we can't change now, not with any amount of practice.[/quote]
Show me the genome that makes one person a more "talented" musician from birth.

Early life = early start. Which is not the same argument as being 'born' more musically gifted. Anything learned early in life, can be learned later in life (just not as easily).

[mcgraham]

[quote name='Kingy_who' post='1254615' date='Jun 2 2011, 09:07 PM']We're not talking about some mysterious force, we're talking about DNA and how they where raised in their early life, stuff that we can't change now, not with any amount of practice.[/quote]

I agree practice can't change DNA, but what do we know for certain about DNA causing certain traits or predispositions towards skills like playing an instrument? Very little I'd say, to the point that we can only really confirm that nurture has an impact on musical development. Sure, we know that DNA is responsible for giving someone (say) long fingers, fast twitch muscle fibres, not having some kind of debilitating condition - these all being helpful for musical development - but beyond that can we really say that he has gene sequence X therefore he's bound to be better at bass playing, particularly prog-rock-fusion? Or gene sequence A which means he was destined to be a guitard? Obviously the latter one semi-qualifies as a debilitating condition, and my heart goes out to those poor poor guitards... dealt a bad hand in life I say.

[tauzero]

[quote name='Eight' post='1254058' date='Jun 2 2011, 02:43 PM']You mean that Austrian kid who's father was a musician, and who spent his early years watching his father teach his sister, before he himself started picking out notes and intervals?

Mozart was not [b]born[/b] a brilliant player/composer - he didn't sit down at the piano one day and suddenly write at his best. His early years were critical, as was his whole approach to learning.

Is it rare for kids to show that discipline, motivation and clarity of thought? Absolutely. But it doesn't prove the existence of some mysterious force behind his abilities.[/quote]
I'm not saying there's some mysterious force behind his abilities. I'm saying that genetically he had some predisposition towards musical ability and creativity, and as it so happened that he grew up in a musical household, he blossomed in that environment. To deny that is to deny that humans differ one from the other. Talent is relative, rather than absolute.

[tauzero]

[quote name='scottkincaid' post='1254103' date='Jun 2 2011, 03:06 PM']Dude, go and check Jared Followill's Wikipedia.

He learned the bass a few weeks before recording and have a look at his basslines!?[/quote]
Ah yes, those cracking root notes.

[Eight]

[quote name='tauzero' post='1255656' date='Jun 3 2011, 04:23 PM']I'm not saying there's some mysterious force behind his abilities. I'm saying that genetically he had some predisposition towards musical ability and creativity, and as it so happened that he grew up in a musical household, he blossomed in that environment. To deny that is to deny that humans differ one from the other. Talent is relative, rather than absolute.[/quote]
Show me the science behind that and I'll agree with you.

But no, denying there's a genetic reason behind musical 'talent' does not deny that humans differ.

[thepurpleblob]

I think it's ridiculous to suggest that anybody has some sort of innate ability to play the bass or play anything else for that matter. Well, you might be physically more adept in some way but I suspect it is of marginal affect.

You get there by doing it and thinking about it.... exactly the same as any other activity. I am very, very good at my boring IT day job (and modest) and that's because I've done it a hell of a lot and seen everything before. If I have a propensity for sitting in a dark room working out complicated IT problems I would blame my upbringing a long time before I would claim any genetic advantage. After all, the ability to program a computer wouldn't do much good thousands of years ago when being chased by a tiger (nor, indeed, would musical ability).

The other thing I have noticed is that musicians lie like hell. While anybody else will tell you, "I'm a great tennis player because I've been practicing for twelve hours a day for the last fifteen years", musicians say "Hey, I just picked it up and could play it". They didn't. They've been playing the thing in their bedrooms since they were 6 but don't see it as practicing or something !

EDIT:
I meant to add.... the annoying thing about these debates is that while people (including me) are shooting off their opinions, there actually will be an answer to the question. Has anybody done any actual scientific research I wonder?

Edited June 3, 2011 by thepurpleblob

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='1256048' date='Jun 3 2011, 11:01 PM']... EDIT:
I meant to add.... the annoying thing about these debates is that while people (including me) are shooting off their opinions, there actually will be an answer to the question. Has anybody done any actual scientific research I wonder?[/quote]
Here's some research cited on [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_pitch#Genetics_and_absolute_pitch"]Wikipedia[/url] on perfect pitch:

[quote]Genetics and absolute pitch

The prevalence of absolute pitch is considerably higher among individuals with early childhood in East Asia.[40][41][42][43] While this difference might seem to be genetic in origin;[44] individuals of East Asian ancestry who are born or reared in the United States or Canada are significantly less likely to develop absolute pitch than those raised in East Asia.[43] This presents the likelihood that the difference is explained by cultural experience rather than genetic heritage. Language may be an important factor; many East Asians speak tonal languages such as Mandarin and Cantonese, while others (such as those in Japan and certain provinces of Korea) speak pitch accent languages, and the prevalence of absolute pitch may be partly explained by exposure to pitches together with meaningful musical labels very early in life.[41][42][43][45][/quote]

[Eight]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='1256048' date='Jun 3 2011, 11:01 PM']The other thing I have noticed is that musicians lie like hell. While anybody else will tell you, "I'm a great tennis player because I've been practicing for twelve hours a day for the last fifteen years", musicians say "Hey, I just picked it up and could play it".[/quote]
Hahaha. That's true - I'm sure we've all been guilty of overstating our abilities or understating our practice at some point. Particularly when there's a girl involved.

[urb]

I've never felt like I had any real natural ability when it comes to playing bass, what I do have though is a natural empathy/affinity with music generally - and this for whatever reason carries over into the bass. I've always know people who have both natural musical ability and others, like me, who've had to slog away to get anything going playing wise. The perfect example of this are these two brothers I played with a lot - both are amazing guitarists - the one who is a stunning classical player turns out to have aspergers autism - mildly - which might explain why aged nine after hearing a Bach piece for guitar he figured it out after just a couple of listens, having never played guitar before. This ability developed to the point where he could remember whole pieces of really advanced classical pieces and play them shockingly quickly after hearing them just once. His approach to jazz was the same and he could play solos by ear that were far in advance of his actual theory knowledge - BUT he also practiced like a mutha for hours and hours a day.

My experience of how many musicians learn is that all the good ones may have a natural aptitude but they enhance this with tons of steady practice - if I have any musical ability it's undoubtedly been enhanced greatly by shedding for years and years - experience counts too and gigging and playing in groups on pro gigs really helps raise your level. And for the record I've been playing for 25 years and even if I've played an average of an hour a day - that makes 9125 hours - I'm still a way off the golden number of 10,000... I'm taking the weekend off fromthe bass - got three gigs next week so that'll keep me going for now!

M

[thepurpleblob]

What I don't think anybody else has explicitly mentioned is the advantage of starting as a kid. Children's brains are wired up to learn stuff quickly. If you can nail down the basics of music when you a child I think it makes a massive difference. I think this is what people call "natural ability".