Double bass setting up questions

[Jakeabilly]

Hello guys and girls,
Ive just received my first double bass, i just got a cheap one from gear4music to get me going, ive heard from a number of punk/rockabilly guys that they are perfectly adequate providing they are set up right. Thing is, i dont have a clue what i need to do to get it set up more for rockabilly. I want that 'tap' sound, so i'm guessing that i should sand the bridge down? By how much, cant i just chisel a couple of mill off the top and recut the string grooves? If i take the bridge down, the strings will no longer run parallel to the neck, they'll impact at the bottom right?
What else is needed to get that slap sound? can it be had without amplification? And on that front, ive heard K&K do a good rockabilly set-up, with an extra pickup sitting behind the neck. What are you all using?
Appreciate the help in advance guys.

Jake

[Gareth Hughes]

If I were you I'd get the set-up done by a reputable luthier. It's worth the expense - plus, if you're soundpost falls down inside while the strings are off that will be a nightmare to get sorted. Sadly double basses aren't like electric basses in that they aren't as user friendly. To adjust the action on an electric bass I wouldn't think twice about taking allen keys to the bridge and even tweaking the truss rod - as (within reason) everything can be put back to the way it was. Not so with an upright bass - once you've sanded down the bridge that's your new bridge height. So anytime you're buying a new double bass it's good practice to keep in mind the cost of a set-up from a luthier - it's like a hidden extra but a very vital one.

[Bilbo]

Can't help re: rockabilly sounds etc but, if you are going to get the bridge adjusted, I would recommend you ask a proper luthier to do it rather than hack away yourself. It will only cost about £40 but may save you some grief later on.

[Jakeabilly]

Thanks for the tips, but physically what changes will a luthier make to the bridge, i mean whats the difference between standard set up and a rockabilly setup generally?
Two answers in half an hour, nice to see! Thanks and keep up the good work!

[derrenleepoole]

You may not actually need a massive setup, it could all be down to good string choice and the right pickup combinations.

Many rockabilly players use a combination of a pickup on the neck and pickup on the bridge, mixed with a dual preamp. The neck pickup gives you that 'snap' you're after, and the bridge pickup gives you your depth of tone etc. Have a look on B[url="http://www.gollihurmusic.com/"]ob Gollihur[/url]'s site, which is full of great info.

Also, do a search on eBay for Weedwhacker strings! They're nylon strings especially for rockabilly and many players seem to love them! They're also dead cheap about 30 quid a set!

[bassace]

I'll probably be hung for this, but if you want a short term appraisal of what a small alteration in string height will achieve, lay the bass on its back and slacken the strings a bit - this should ensure that the soundpost won't fall out. Then you can slide the bridge towards the fingerboard by up to 6mm - this will raise the strings - or up to 6mm away from the fingerboard - this will lower the strings. I stress that this isn't a long term fix but will enable you to do a 'what-if' without going to a luthier.

[Gareth Hughes]

Good suggestion Bassace - I should have thought of that too. I used to rent a bass out to a bluegrass festival and it always came back like that!!!

[fatback]

I believe that if you go the weedwacker route you might have to widen the nut (and bridge?) slots to take the much thicker string?

I think i read that somewhere, so maybe worth checking out.

[Jakeabilly]

Yeah bassace, nice idea. My bass came without the bridge attached, so i dont think the internal bracing post is free to fall out. After a good peer into the depths, it seems pretty well wedged, bridge or no bridge. And Derrin, i'd seen those weedwackers, nice to have a second opinion. Have you played them? I guess they give a different sound of course, but i wonder in what way.... hmmm, well, as you say, for 30 sheets, its worth it for a spare set of strings. Seperate issue, i broke my D whilst tuning and i called up gear4music and the girl sent out a replacement set instantly, i didnt even suggest it. Great service, id recommend...

[Thurbs]

I bought an archer from gear4music with insanely high action, rubbish strings and a buzzy action on e & a. Took it to a luither who lowered the bridge and re-shaped the top half of the finger board for about £300. Worth every penny.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I have a set of weedwackers on my bass. Much lower tension than the original strings or Thomastics. I love the sound of them except the E which sounds more like like a bucket of jelly being slapped with a haddock.

[thisnameistaken]

I wouldn't recommend moving the bridge - its position has a massive effect on the tone of the bass.

Some rockabilly / roots players prefer a high setup, some prefer low, the main thing with slap is getting a set of strings that give you the sound you want at the tension you want - that will make the bass easier to slap, then you can concern yourself with adjusting the string height to suit. Weedwhackers have already been suggested, I know some slappers on here prefer Silver Slaps (Teej and Clarky, IIRC) which feel more like normal strings and don't roll under your finger like weedwhackers do. They are still fairly cheap compared to most bass strings.

I know some adventurous players on here have cut their own bridges to size but it's best to do it from the base of the bridge and that means matching the footprint to the body of your bass - doesn't look like an easy thing to do! Or you could get a luthier to do it for you, which might seem expensive until you compare it to the number of hours you'd waste probably getting it wrong.

Edited April 22, 2011 by thisnameistaken

[bassace]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1208098' date='Apr 22 2011, 11:17 AM']I wouldn't recommend moving the bridge - its position has a massive effect on the tone of the bass.[/quote]


And when you run your finger up the board the note changes.
Please read my post. I simply advocated moving the bridge to get an idea of which string height would suit the playng. I recommended it as a short term fix. If weed wackers are being considered I wouldn't think tone would be very high on the priorities anyway. I got the idea of moving the bridge from a respected luthier so it can't be all bad. I knew I'd get hung.

[thisnameistaken]

I think you're overreacting a bit.

[bassace]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1208151' date='Apr 22 2011, 11:46 AM']I think you're overreacting a bit.[/quote]


No, just reacting a bit.

[Clarky]

PaulKing is a big slap bass player - if you search for his posts you can get an idea - and he may be able to offer some more rockabilly-specific advice

I tried Weedwackers but hated the dead E and A strings - Silver Slaps are great, low tension, nice sounding .... although I don't slap (one day I will ask PaulKing, who lives not too far from me in West London, to show me how to slap, in return for plying him with alcohol or whatever his poison is!)

[fonzoooroo]

The sound of the slap is in the technique.

Most modern "cheap" basses are supplied with steel strings. This is not necessarily a bad thing. (I play slap on steels - a lot of psychobilly players do, and those that want to use magnetic pickups)
To slap on steels either requires fingers of iron, or a relatively low action. If the action is high, and you like the action high, the only option is to use softer strings (nylon core, "bumped" strings [using an A as an E, D as an A etc],guts or weedwhackers) Clarky is not alone: MANY players dislike whacker E&A strings.

I'm a classically trained luthier, and can assure you there's a lot of knowledge involved in bridges/setup on basses. I often find that once the bridge is adjusted to height that the fingerboard then requires work. Whilst you [i]can[/i] DIY it, you're likely to get a much better result from a luthier who isn't doing their first bridge.

Pickups: As you're aware, K&K rockabilly is one of the preferred few, though there are other ways depending on the sound you're after, and how loud you want to go.

[thisnameistaken]

FWIW the one guy I know who plays slap on steel strings buys Rotosounds in a solo tuning set - designed to be tuned up a tone from orchestral tuning - then tunes them down a tone, so they are quite loose and still at regular tuning.

Gives a really nice psychobilly sound through the pickup setup he's got - a Schaller mag pup and a piezo under the fingerboard to pick up the percussive slap.

[Jakeabilly]

because i cant afford a pickup right now, i dont want too little tension, wanna get a ring out of it... do i just want too much?! oh and thanks for the little squabble as well, very entertaining!!

[fonzoooroo]

You CAN afford a pickup - just perhaps not the one you ultimately hope for! A piezo transducer like this:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5x-New-FT-20T-6A1-MINIATURE-UNCASED-PIEZO-TRANSDUCER-/250445825335?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item3a4fbc0537"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5x-New-FT-20T-6A1-MI...=item3a4fbc0537[/url]

(note that's a price for 5 of them!!!)

can be used. ... just needs a bit of work to get it fitting quite tightly under the "wing" of the bridge, then (ideally) the shortest cable you can get away with before the preamp. Use a good quality cable to attach toe transducer to an inline type jack socket, attach that to the tailpiece (or tailgut with cable ties if you're feeling fancy) amd off you go... You can use a 2nd one in a similar way as a fingerboard pickup, then you MAY get away with wiring them together, or run them to either a stereo socket/cable and preamp seperately, or run 2 cables to the bass. You wouldn't be the 1st to do it like that!

I'd get the playability sorted first, so you can sort the technique, and accept the acoustic volume that you get. If you're using a decent amp, you'll be surprised how good a sound you can get using the gear i've just outlined.

[waltsdog]

[quote name='Jakeabilly' post='1207168' date='Apr 21 2011, 03:27 PM']Hello guys and girls,
Ive just received my first double bass, i just got a cheap one from gear4music to get me going, ive heard from a number of punk/rockabilly guys that they are perfectly adequate providing they are set up right. Thing is, i dont have a clue what i need to do to get it set up more for rockabilly. I want that 'tap' sound, so i'm guessing that i should sand the bridge down? By how much, cant i just chisel a couple of mill off the top and recut the string grooves? If i take the bridge down, the strings will no longer run parallel to the neck, they'll impact at the bottom right?
What else is needed to get that slap sound? can it be had without amplification? And on that front, ive heard K&K do a good rockabilly set-up, with an extra pickup sitting behind the neck. What are you all using?
Appreciate the help in advance guys.

Jake[/quote]

There is a set up guide in pdf format in post 10 of this thread [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=42654&hl=setup"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=42654&hl=setup[/url] if you're feeling brave enough (I'd get it done by a pro personally).
You won't need a pickup/amplification to get a slap sound from the bass so probably best to look into that once you're a bit further along?