lettsguitars Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='1138229' date='Feb 23 2011, 09:57 AM']I was in a well-known vintage dealership in Denmark Street a year ago looking at a 1971 Mustang. The G-string was way too close to the edge of the fretboard, which I pointed out to the owner. He took the bass from me, said "Yes, Fender QC was a well-known issue at the time" and jerked the neck sideways quite hard ... then handed it back to me with the strings now properly aligned. [/quote] f***ing hell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='mart' post='1138204' date='Feb 23 2011, 09:35 AM']Well here's one culprit: a 2008 Rockbass. I don't think the bridge, pickups or neck were in exactly the right place, but the most noticeable is the misalignment between the bridge and the pickups. I've been told that the RBs now have much better QC. [/quote] shocking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='lettsguitars' post='1137736' date='Feb 22 2011, 09:13 PM']it's hard to understand, but most of the big name basses i see look like they've bee put together buy someone who has never seen a straight edge. anyone out there looking at buying fenders, gibsons, rickenbackers, or indeed anything built by factory workers, take a moment to look at the bass properly. are the strings centred at the nut and at the end of the fretboard? if not, the bridge needs moving and i would keep looking until you find a good one (good luck). it is so prevalent and i dont think most people notice. i'll tell you something, if i, or indeed any other proud maker put a bass together like that, it would not leave the shop. is this what you pay 3 grand for a handmade bass for? just so you get a bridge in the right place, it's so simple, a monkey could do it. if mistakes like that are being made across the board, what else is going on? and i'm not talking about the lower end stuff either. this happens on high end highly priced so called 'professional' instruments. a bit of a rant, but i get angry when i see people ooohh and aaaah over a £750 bass that has such rudimentary ills. so, if anyone feels like checking their bass and responding that could be interesting to see just who the main culprits are, perhaps we can find a common factor, country of origin etc. maybe even pinpoint the factory that is doing it and kill them all. if you've just bought a bass and it has this problem, maybe you could get your money back and together we can change the world.[/quote] I couldn't agree more. It's shocking how bad some of them are, (Fender - I'm talking to you!). I had a custom build that was like this too. It is not f***ing on! I built my own bass and even I managed to get it right, and I'm a total amateur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='1138229' date='Feb 23 2011, 09:57 AM']I was in a well-known vintage dealership in Denmark Street a year ago looking at a 1971 Mustang. The G-string was way too close to the edge of the fretboard, which I pointed out to the owner. He took the bass from me, said "Yes, Fender QC was a well-known issue at the time" and jerked the neck sideways quite hard ... then handed it back to me with the strings now properly aligned. [/quote] I did that to a 70s three bolt Jazz in a well known vintage guitar shop, made a loud creak! Sorted it though . You can do that on a lot of 70s three bolt Fenders. In fact, the Fender reps used to do it all the time, but behind the backs of the shop owners. Fender used to hand rout neck sockets to be slightly bigger if the micro-tilt didn't fit properly (discs were sometimes punched off-centre). Look at the gap between the neck and the top side of the body if you're buying a 70s three bolt. If you could get a used condom down it, you know what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1138309' date='Feb 23 2011, 11:00 AM']I did that to a 70s three bolt Jazz in a well known vintage guitar shop, made a loud creak! Sorted it though . You can do that on a lot of 70s three bolt Fenders. In fact, the Fender reps used to do it all the time, but behind the backs of the shop owners. Fender used to hand rout neck sockets to be slightly bigger if the micro-tilt didn't fit properly (discs were sometimes punched off-centre). Look at the gap between the neck and the top side of the body if you're buying a 70s three bolt. If you could get a used condom down it, you know what happened.[/quote] Are you saying I need to bring a used condom with me when I go shopping for a bass?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1138309' date='Feb 23 2011, 11:00 AM']... Look at the gap between the neck and the top side of the body if you're buying a 70s three bolt. If you could get a used condom down it, you know what happened.[/quote] Should the used condom be removed first? You're not clear on that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='Jerry_B' post='1137822' date='Feb 22 2011, 10:12 PM']But then again, does the bass sound suffer from the bridge being slightly misaligned? Is there a point where if starts messing things up? I ask as I imagine the magnetic field of the pickups is spread around to a certain extent. My Squier P/J has a misaligned bridge, but otherwise sounds fine.[/quote] Yes, I think it's in most cases purely aesthetic, as it does not affect the sound or playability. But the OP is right: it's not a hard thing to achieve, it just needs some attention... and you'd expect that basses above a certain price would have been a bit more carefully made. It's usually teh bridge... but sometimes it's actually the neck needing to be realigned, on bolt-on basses. A bass will still be fine without a perfect alignment, as long as you don't get a string too close to teh edge and the polepieces roughly align... but it does not look tidy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='mart' post='1138204' date='Feb 23 2011, 01:35 AM']Well here's one culprit: a 2008 Rockbass. I don't think the bridge, pickups or neck were in exactly the right place, but the most noticeable is the misalignment between the bridge and the pickups. I've been told that the RBs now have much better QC. [/quote] WOW! It's mind boggling that it can be off that much. I'd guess they don't drill the bridge holes at the same time they route the pickup cavities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='1138229' date='Feb 23 2011, 01:57 AM']I was in a well-known vintage dealership in Denmark Street a year ago looking at a 1971 Mustang. The G-string was way too close to the edge of the fretboard, which I pointed out to the owner. He took the bass from me, said "Yes, Fender QC was a well-known issue at the time" and jerked the neck sideways quite hard ... then handed it back to me with the strings now properly aligned. [/quote] The old neck yank is a part of being a Fender owner. The problem is that it slips out of place again. That's why I would clean the mating surfaces in the pocket so you get more contact area and therefore more friction and less neck shifting. The 3 bolt necks with the built in shim screw can be nightmares of neck shift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I just noticed the nut on my Japan Fender Jazz I got a couple of weeks ago is cut incorrectly. The G slot has a wider spacing from the D slot than the others are from eachother. Off to The Gallery to get a new one fitted I reckon. Typical. You can see it here, but in the flesh it's more pronounced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Who is John Blackman, and why does he hold copyright over your photo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBRebelMC Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I was in a music store the other day and just out of interest I always like to do a quick QC on the stock - especially Fender basses. I wasn't particularly looking for alignment problems but I did notice issues with neck pockets. What is it with Fender and neck pockets! Out of 5 USA basses two were absolutely perfect and three (all the same model and colour) had unacceptable gaps (by which I mean you could slide a business card in there). I'm sorry but if china can cut a perfect neck pocket for £200 quid why cant the USA consistently do the same fo £1100! And dont even get me started on Gibson and glue joints! I have seen a telecaster (guitar) that was unplayable due to the neck/bridge being so far out of alignment the bottom E was off the fret board, when i pointed this out there was little interest shown...Is some of the problem that music shops allow these instruments to hang on the walls when they should be rejected the minute they are unpacked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1139659' date='Feb 24 2011, 10:04 AM']I just noticed the nut on my Japan Fender Jazz I got a couple of weeks ago is cut incorrectly. The G slot has a wider spacing from the D slot than the others are from eachother. Off to The Gallery to get a new one fitted I reckon. Typical. You can see it here, but in the flesh it's more pronounced. [/quote] Thats weird. I wouldnt have noticed that until you pointed it out, but I can see what you mean. Is that 'normal' or wrong? I dont understand Fender...at all. Great sound, great style, 50:50 if its well made! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1139659' date='Feb 24 2011, 10:04 AM']I just noticed the nut on my Japan Fender Jazz I got a couple of weeks ago is cut incorrectly. The G slot has a wider spacing from the D slot than the others are from eachother. Off to The Gallery to get a new one fitted I reckon. Typical. You can see it here, but in the flesh it's more pronounced. [/quote] Nice headstock though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='silddx' post='1139659' date='Feb 24 2011, 10:04 AM']I just noticed the nut on my Japan Fender Jazz I got a couple of weeks ago is cut incorrectly. The G slot has a wider spacing from the D slot than the others are from eachother. Off to The Gallery to get a new one fitted I reckon. Typical. You can see it here, but in the flesh it's more pronounced. ....[/quote] I thought that string-spacing was usually designed so the centre-to-centre distance between the strings was constant. This, of course, means the [i]gap[/i] between the D and the G string will be larger than the gap between the A and the D, which, in turn, will be larger than the gap between E and A. Without a ruler to measure the centre-to-centre spacing I don't think I'd be able to tell whether a nut was cut correctly or not - our eyes are not good at gauging that kind of thing. Edited February 24, 2011 by mart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1139488' date='Feb 24 2011, 01:26 AM']WOW! It's mind boggling that it can be off that much. I'd guess they don't drill the bridge holes at the same time they route the pickup cavities.[/quote] Yep, they clearly don't. The bridge is out by about 3mm. (At least that's what I reckoned when I re-fitted the bridge in the right place!) But what surprised me more was that the neck pocket seems to be out of line with the pickup cavities. Surely they would have been routed on the same machine at the same time? Yet the neck axis does not (quite) match the pickup cavities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='Johnston' post='1139788' date='Feb 24 2011, 11:52 AM']There seems to be two schools of thought these days. The centre to centre being the same or the stings having the same gap between them.[/quote] And then there's the Fender "oh, any old spacing will do" school of thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='Johnston' post='1139800' date='Feb 24 2011, 12:00 PM']Don't be silly they keep everyone happy by using both methods on every bass.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='mart' post='1139786' date='Feb 24 2011, 11:50 AM']I thought that string-spacing was usually designed so the centre-to-centre distance between the strings was constant. This, of course, means the [i]gap[/i] between the D and the G string will be larger than the gap between the A and the D, which, in turn, will be larger than the gap between E and A. Without a ruler to measure the centre-to-centre spacing I don't think I'd be able to tell whether a nut was cut correctly or not - our eyes are not good at gauging that kind of thing.[/quote] true 'nuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 [quote name='Johnston' post='1139895' date='Feb 24 2011, 01:07 PM']Here's the thing though if you have had it for a few weeks, played it a fair amount, I presume also gigged it and you have [i]just[/i] noticed it. Is it that big a deal??? [b]If a "fault" doesn't detract from the playing or the sound at what point does it become a fault and not just a part of the personality of the instrument???[/b][/quote] You mean like having an aunty with three tits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 You have an aunt from Eroticon six? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Musicman20' post='1139696' date='Feb 24 2011, 02:38 AM']Thats weird. I wouldnt have noticed that until you pointed it out, but I can see what you mean. Is that 'normal' or wrong?[/quote] Normal, and for most people it just doesn't matter. Look at how long they got away with using randomly cut pieces of threaded rod as bridge saddles. The only way to get those to space correctly is dumb luck. Unless you don't notice small imperfections like almost every Fender owner. [attachment=73207:Fender_quality.jpg] Edited February 25, 2011 by Vibrating G String Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 [quote name='mart' post='1139786' date='Feb 24 2011, 03:50 AM']I thought that string-spacing was usually designed so the centre-to-centre distance between the strings was constant. This, of course, means the [i]gap[/i] between the D and the G string will be larger than the gap between the A and the D, which, in turn, will be larger than the gap between E and A. Without a ruler to measure the centre-to-centre spacing I don't think I'd be able to tell whether a nut was cut correctly or not - our eyes are not good at gauging that kind of thing.[/quote] When I measure the picture on the screen they come out even Assuming a light gauge set of 40-100 the gap should only change 20/1000's of an inch if center to center is perfect. We could take it to the next level and find out how the fingers perform at different degrees of extension and find we want different spacings for the different strings based on how curled our fingers are. Sounds like I need to patent the 2 way compensated nut before Big Poppa does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 [quote name='Johnston' post='1139788' date='Feb 24 2011, 03:52 AM']There seems to be two schools of thought these days. The centre to centre being the same or the stings having the same gap between them.[/quote] As a fingerstyle player I play on the tops of the strings so gap seems ridiculous to me. Maybe as a pick player it would make some sense but only if you never skip a string. What are the arguments for gap? And where's the Emu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 [quote name='Johnston' post='1139895' date='Feb 24 2011, 05:07 AM']Here's the thing though if you have had it for a few weeks, played it a fair amount, I presume also gigged it and you have [i]just[/i] noticed it. Is it that big a deal??? If a "fault" doesn't detract from the playing or the sound at what point does it become a fault and not just a part of the personality of the instrument???[/quote] Kind of like finding a dent on your car, once you find it the annoyance starts. Until then everything is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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