lojo Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) Im always fine at remember chords etc, but really struggle big time with structures, Remembering lyrics is fine, but if your playing with different singers and bands, this may not be enough to reply on just that as singers can make mistakes and phrase things that might throw you I've found recently to sit and listen, ticking off the bars and noting changes and anything that happens out of the ordinary seems to help in sink in more deeply, no bass in hand If I just print the lyrics and chords from the internet it really does me no favors as to helping the structure sink in Edited February 1, 2011 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigjas Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I try to visualise the patterns on most songs. I find I can remember things i see better than what I have read on a sheet. Our guitarist has a folder full of tab and chord and he struggles to give them up, he is quite dependant on them. i try to just read the tab and then throw it away and it forces me to remember. Jas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 If Burrito has already managed to shrink his songsheets down to postcards it looks as though someone will be bringing out patches to help with this addiction before too long... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeSuisSkeleton Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 [quote name='icastle' post='1110566' date='Feb 1 2011, 07:14 AM']The way the rest of the guys learned how to do it was harsh but worked - they got rid of their books as well. Nothing focuses you more than having a crutch AND a safety net removed at the same time... [/quote] If it's worth anything, I find this can be applied to a lot of things. My reading is pretty terrible so I went along to a couple of sessions of the "contemporary classical" ensemble at my uni. First thing we were given was this mentalist Mark-Anthony Turnage piece. Having to be able to read it almost straight away melted my face but it definitely helped. I'm still not super-confident with reading but I'm getting better at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krysbass Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Constant repetition is where it's at - the songs will soon become second nature. I never use anything written down to work out or to help memorise a song. I just put mp3's of all the songs I need to learn on my Micro BR and then both listen to them carefully and play over them as part of my home practice routine. In my case, the 90 minute round trip to/from work is useful time to listen carefully to the songs, count repetitions and work out where cues are - no bass needed for that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 [quote name='Krysbass' post='1110876' date='Feb 1 2011, 12:30 PM']In my case, the 90 minute round trip to/from work is useful time to listen carefully to the songs, count repetitions and work out where cues are - no bass needed for that one![/quote] +1 Provided you don't get distracted by it, the car is an ideal place to listen to stuff you are trying to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan670844 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 [quote name='charic' post='1109973' date='Jan 31 2011, 07:58 PM']Not a bad idea about trying to write them out again. That may work... The songs don't have a finalised set of lyrics yet so that wont work The problem I have is Im originally a keyboard player (yeah i know) and trained to sight read. So I'm used to doing that. Ill try rearranging the songs. Unfortunately for me theyre quite complex but that comes with the territory or proggish metal I guess...[/quote] Chord charts are the best way and only way really I find I can get my head round a song if you are playing bass. You can then easily see the structure of the song, i.e intro verse chorus verse middle 8 outro etc and how to link each bar together to make a nice bass line. If you chart it out you will be then able to count the bars out for each section, so you know where you are. this way you will soon get it down. As the bass player you are the person who needs to know where you are, as its your job to lead the melody from one chord to the next, and the song from one section to the other, this is why the bass is such a powerful instrument. I always try to chart stuff out, even if I play the bass line different, I can see where I am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 I've got the structures down for these songs (mostly) it's more remembering the notes. I'm going to pull the songs apart into sections later and rearrange at random till I can play each section without trouble. New stronger callousses will be present at the end of the day I expect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 [quote name='charic' post='1110949' date='Feb 1 2011, 01:29 PM'](mostly) it's more remembering the notes.[/quote] It may be worth clarifying what you know, for example are you remembering a string of notes that make a riff or line, which mean nothing else to you other than an order of notes, or do you understand and "see" chords within the line For me, I cant read and only have a basic chord knowledge, but I've played enough to see patterns I already know every time I learn a song, even If I cant technically name it Obviously the more you know the more patterns you will see and understand and therefore be able to remember easier as you have a way of arrange it in your mind Having seen the developments of my own understanding of songs and the quickness to do grasp or work out a new song, I can only imagine how amplified that will be for some who is truly knowledgeable about theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 I know the structures of the songs and I know the basic patterns but they vary a lot throughout the songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I find that my memory comes in useful for remembering things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 [quote name='Gust0o' post='1110019' date='Jan 31 2011, 08:19 PM']Yeah, I remember patterns too and build muscle memory around them. I'd recommend recording your songs - which should be reasonable easy, given the prevalence of smart phones. Then just structure your practice around a combination of play along to the the drums and guitar of the track and working on your notes.[/quote] +1 When you playback think about your finger patterns and hey presto. I am lucky enough to have a terrible memory for all things important but an amazing memory for music... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Interesting discussion. I find that I remember the complicated songs and forget the simple three-chord ones. It seems to get worse if I have been playing them for ages. What annoys me are those people who seem to be able to remember every song they ever learned. If I haven't played something for a couple of months it's like I never knew it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropzone Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I try and break songs down into other songs that I know better even if it is for just a chord change / preogression. Eg from a start point if I am dropping 4 frets then 5 then up 7 then I remember it as Alone by Heart or sometimes doctor doctor by UFO. Or From a start point drop 5 up 2 down 4 is with or without you by U2 etc etc. Just my way ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gub Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 once i write something down thats it i can never remember it ,i always have to have that sheet of paper in front of me at a gig ,rehersal etc or i cant remember it ,so i never write stuff down anymore i just keep going over it at home on my own until it sticks ,this seems to work for me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 [quote name='dan670844' post='1110909' date='Feb 1 2011, 01:00 PM']Chord charts are the best way and only way really I find I can get my head round a song if you are playing bass. You can then easily see the structure of the song, i.e intro verse chorus verse middle 8 outro etc and how to link each bar together to make a nice bass line. If you chart it out you will be then able to count the bars out for each section, so you know where you are. this way you will soon get it down. As the bass player you are the person who needs to know where you are, as its your job to lead the melody from one chord to the next, and the song from one section to the other, this is why the bass is such a powerful instrument. I always try to chart stuff out, even if I play the bass line different, I can see where I am[/quote] +1000 When i get into trouble is when I've been playing a part for so long I've forgotten the chord sequence and only remember the part. Linear thinking can lead to disaster imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan670844 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 [quote name='lojo' post='1111029' date='Feb 1 2011, 02:15 PM']It may be worth clarifying what you know, for example are you remembering a string of notes that make a riff or line, which mean nothing else to you other than an order of notes, or do you understand and "see" chords within the line For me, I cant read and only have a basic chord knowledge, but I've played enough to see patterns I already know every time I learn a song, even If I cant technically name it Obviously the more you know the more patterns you will see and understand and therefore be able to remember easier as you have a way of arrange it in your mind Having seen the developments of my own understanding of songs and the quickness to do grasp or work out a new song, I can only imagine how amplified that will be for some who is truly knowledgeable about theory[/quote] I am one of the worlds lazyest people so for me learning appegios was essential, it means then all i have to remember is the chromatic leading tones, if I can be bothered to play them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan670844 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 [quote name='fatback' post='1111428' date='Feb 1 2011, 06:43 PM']+1000 When i get into trouble is when I've been playing a part for so long I've forgotten the chord sequence and only remember the part. Linear thinking can lead to disaster imo [/quote] a fellow jazz bass player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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