The snobbery of us all

[DanOwens]

Hey guys,

My recent blogpost deals with perceptions of hierarchy and how we use our equipment to establish it.

[url="http://mrdfowens.tumblr.com/post/1515874283/effects-as-a-catalyst-for-consumerist-one-upmanship"]The blog is here[/url]. Please have a read and tell me if you agree / disagree.

It certainly made me feel a bit dirty to be writing it.

Dan

[Gust0o]

I think you're quite right to reject your own disdain, in looking at the example of your thoughts around your friend's set-up - it's barely the most 'chummy' of approaches within the confines of affection.

Within the realms of professionalism, it could well be different - it's a very different lens, when your gear is your living.

I suspect your "dirty" comment comes from how outsized and overgeared this appears to be. It's in human nature to covet, ever since we set our moral boundaries on the ownership of property - you have; you have not; and you can make value judgements around whether you think what you or others have is really good enough.

Which is fine, in and of itself. Instead it seems to be the gloating, commoditised element of this in our modern world that you object to - that, looking at what is nothing more than a collection of plastic and metal, that you could feel such disdain?

I don't blame you. In fact, if I've read you correctly, (and I do mean, [i]read[/i] - not [i]read into[/i], which is a bad habit of mine - then I can empathise.

I feel like a plebeian; some filthy oik, with my lowly and singular Big Muff.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Gust0o

[xilddx]

[i]"there are a great number of bass players I know who also want to distance themselves from the ‘quiet-but-reliable guy at the back’ image constructed by the media when writing about bassists.

These players want to make big strides towards new and interesting sounds in the same way I do, but the distance we put between ourselves and the perceived norm seems like a caricature of teenage rebellion"[/i]

You forgot people like me who dress up, dance about, wear black gloves and use DR Neons

[cheddatom]

I've observed snobbery (IE haha look at your sh*tty zoom multi pedal next to your zvex, WTF are you playing at you idiot) but i've never actually felt it myself.

I've felt "proud" of my gear, but never experienced any sort of positive as a result of observing another's gear, even if I do perceive it to be inferior and/or too expensive.

I do lust after gear and want more. In the case of basses, I really could not justify it and hopefully i'll stick to not buying them. In the case of pedals, I just keep looking and keep buying to keep expanding my repertoire of sounds.

Basically I didn't get your article at all sorry.

[thisnameistaken]

I don't think I've come across this gigging, to be honest. And I've never bought stuff because someone else decided it was good - I buy stuff because I hope it will be really useful.

I did have a boutique filter for a couple of years (a Meatwad) but I bought it because it had a ton of features and I wanted to stop buying and selling so many filters, and it worked for a long time. In the end I sold it because I needed all those features to be more available so I replaced it with an Octavius Squeezer because it was programmable.

The only time I've changed my setup because of the way I thought people perceived it was when I sold off a bunch of singles and my giant gator board and instead fit everything I needed on to a pedaltrain. Well it was partly because I thought I looked like a knob with a ton of pedals, and partly because I also sing and it was getting in the way of my mic stand.

As for basses and amps, I've never really cared what people thought. I gigged a Squier for a while because I strung it with flats and it sounded ace. I bought a Thumb bass because I'd heard one on Fishbone (and to a lesser extent, 311) records and wanted that sound. Amp-wise I'm using a little Schroeder cab not because it's boutique but because I can load it in and out of my first floor flat without needing a pulley system or a team of roadies.

So I think I'm being entirely honest when I say all my gear decisions are driven by practicality, and primarily sound.

Edit: What I do find strange, though, is when someone asks for gear recommendations in a forum and a whole crop of dudes turn up to evangelise the thing they own over everything else, often without really considering the specifics of the request. I think those are the players who are truly emotionally invested in the stuff they buy. It's silly.

Edited November 8, 2010 by thisnameistaken

[DanOwens]

silddx - Not true. I thought about you, but will wait for another blog to reflect on brightly coloured strings!

tom - I'm impressed that you're not effected by this, I wish I wasn't and I do understand why people use things like Zoom products (they do what the user wants). The article is, I suppose, a reflection on my own weaknesses and how I try and come to terms with the dichotomy between my genuinely positive perception of my environment and yet my appreciation that all is not quite right.

Dan

[Adrenochrome]

Yep I'm guilty of reverse snobbery. I absolutely LOVE the fact that my £199 Peavey bass had superior ergonomics and sounded better than the US Fender Jazz I tried for the encores at a gig I played. I also enjoy the fact that punters comment on my great valve amp, which is actually a Zoom multi FX into a SS amp.

[Gust0o]

[quote]Edit: What I do find strange, though, is when someone asks for gear recommendations in a forum and a whole crop of dudes turn up to evangelise the thing they own over everything else[/quote]

Guilty as charged, in many respects - people will have strong opinions on matters closest to them; and, in the bid to be useful, sometimes it is not so.

[phil.i.stein]

hi Dan,

when i buy pedals, i'm not thinking about getting one-up on anyone, rather just enjoying making massive sounds. for instance, i just bought Mr.Foxens ring mod/wah, which has to be the ugliest looking pedal ever known to mankind, but i'm hoping it makes up for it in the sound dept.

you are correct to a certain extent in the fact that most of us do prefer things that are pleasing to the eye, be it cars, basses, clothes etc.., but i'm a phillistine, and still experimenting.

interesting topic though..

[Jerry_B]

At the end of the day I tend to think that gear doesn't really matter - what sound you want and get from whatever you have matters most. Let's face it, very few people in an audience will give a monkey's about what kit you're using unless it sounds crappy (unless crappy is what you're aiming for). People will enthuse of what kit they prefer, but that's just the nature of having an interest in the stuff we like as individuals and what we like the sound of.

[phil.i.stein]

as an afterthought to this thread..

i had the pleasure of meeting Shep (pantherairsoft)on friday. he has an incredibly cool-looking and sounding set-up, and was patient enough to talk me through the whole process. there was not even the slightest trace of gear-snobbery detectable in him, just a keen interest to share in the amazement of the sonic possibilities available from a bass guitar and fx. i really enjoyed the experience.

i would hazard a guess that there is probably more snobbery directed against people who use effects than vice-versa., but i hope i'm not opening a worm-can.

[xilddx]

I've had boutique and Keeley-mod pedals for guitar, but I got them for their sounds. I got rid after a while and purely for practical reasons and sheer versatility, I got the POD X3 LIVE. I don't know what I would do without it now.

I have no desire for pedals, to me they are inflexible for a live situation. The only floor unit I have ever had an envious feeling for was ped's bass synth - the tones coming out of it were incredible.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='silddx' post='1016484' date='Nov 8 2010, 03:48 PM']I have no desire for pedals, to me they are inflexible for a live situation.[/quote]

Inflexible in what way?

[xilddx]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1016487' date='Nov 8 2010, 03:51 PM']Inflexible in what way?[/quote]
With my POD, I can change any setting and combination as I need for choruses, flangers, compression ratios, delays, reverbs, distortions, eqs, gates, etc. without having to do anything more than stamp on a button. A pedal is capable of many variable sounds but you can't easily change them while playing the bass.

[Cat Burrito]

Sorry but are you suggesting musicians are guilty of both snobbery & inverse snobbery? Well, I never!

An interesting article. I think we fit certain stereotypes - I don't see myself as a quiet guy or as a pedal freak but I definitely fit the cliche in other ways. Ultimately none of it really bothers me. We all do what we do. And hopefully have a lot of fun along the way doing it

[DanOwens]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1016464' date='Nov 8 2010, 03:24 PM']i just bought Mr.Foxens ring mod/wah, which has to be the ugliest looking pedal ever known to mankind, but i'm hoping it makes up for it in the sound dept.[/quote]

You see, I thought about buying that pedal but because it's so different. The sound it creates (apparently a mix between bandpass and ringmod) would further set me out from the crowd. Egocentricity encased in a genuine need to sound cool.

And don't get me wrong, I'm happy to eulogise about my set-up and explain it all and offer advice as to how to do what I do better than me because I can learn and then develop, then explain, then learn etc...

I suppose once you get to the heart of it it comes back to the friends episode where Joey suggests that Phoebe try and do something truly altruistic and she can't because at the end of it all, we are all self-concerned. I'm an unashamed socialist and a teacher; I thrive on collaboration and development but there's still a part of me that wants to be the best (or as my article rather startlingly describes it - I want to seen to be the best).

Dan

[xilddx]

[quote name='DanOwens' post='1016504' date='Nov 8 2010, 04:03 PM']You see, I thought about buying that pedal but because it's so different. The sound it creates (apparently a mix between bandpass and ringmod) would further set me out from the crowd. Egocentricity encased in a genuine need to sound cool.

And don't get me wrong, I'm happy to eulogise about my set-up and explain it all and offer advice as to how to do what I do better than me because I can learn and then develop, then explain, then learn etc...

I suppose once you get to the heart of it it comes back to the friends episode where Joey suggests that Phoebe try and [b]do something truly altruistic and she can't because at the end of it all, we are all self-concerned.[/b] I'm an unashamed socialist and a teacher; I thrive on collaboration and development but there's still a part of me that wants to be the best (or as my article rather startlingly describes it - I want to seen to be the best).

Dan[/quote]
I was at a Q&A with Scott Thunes yesterday and he said, as humans, we all want to be No1, except when playing with Frank Zappa, where you wanted to be at least No2

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='silddx' post='1016496' date='Nov 8 2010, 03:57 PM']With my POD, I can change any setting and combination as I need for choruses, flangers, compression ratios, delays, reverbs, distortions, eqs, gates, etc. without having to do anything more than stamp on a button. A pedal is capable of many variable sounds but you can't easily change them while playing the bass.[/quote]

Yeah but how many different chorus sounds do you [i]need[/i] on a gig? One or none, in my experience! So a stomp box is the ideal solution.

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='DanOwens' post='1016504' date='Nov 8 2010, 04:03 PM']You see, I thought about buying that pedal but because it's so different. The sound it creates (apparently a mix between bandpass and ringmod) would further set me out from the crowd. Egocentricity encased in a genuine need to sound cool.

And don't get me wrong, I'm happy to eulogise about my set-up and explain it all and offer advice as to how to do what I do better than me because I can learn and then develop, then explain, then learn etc...

I suppose once you get to the heart of it it comes back to the friends episode where Joey suggests that Phoebe try and do something truly altruistic and she can't because at the end of it all, we are all self-concerned. I'm an unashamed socialist and a teacher; I thrive on collaboration and development but there's still a part of me that wants to be the best (or as my article rather startlingly describes it - I want to seen to be the best).

Dan[/quote]
now, are we in danger of confusing wanting to be (a) 'the best' with wanting to be ( 'different' ? in case (.. i am guilty as charged.

bollocks ..'b' was not intended to be sunglasses

that's why i was a mod/metaller/punk/goth in the space of 2 years when i was a teenager. . i still like to think i can see things from lots of different perspectives, and find it difficult to argue with any 'one' point of view.

these days i enjoy punk, dubstep, d'n'b, classical, jazz' black metal, jap-noise, et al.,

i would not ever consider trying to be best at one thing. i would lose.

Edited November 8, 2010 by phil.i.stein

[Jerry_B]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1016534' date='Nov 8 2010, 04:28 PM']i would not ever consider trying to be best at one thing. i would lose.[/quote]

And someone would always say 'Well, he's not as good as...' despite what one thinks of oneself

[xilddx]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1016532' date='Nov 8 2010, 04:26 PM']Yeah but how many different chorus sounds do you [i]need[/i] on a gig? One or none, in my experience! So a stomp box is the ideal solution.[/quote]
Depends on the gig. Dan's in a D&B sort of band, so he needs lots. I'm in a pop band that needs a a few different sounds, and a more theatrical sounding chamber-pop band that I use a good number of different sounds and effects for, and lots of volume pedal.

It's not just about turning one effect off and on either, how about turning off your flanger, delay, compressor and switching to a new eq pattern simultaneously?

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='silddx' post='1016552' date='Nov 8 2010, 04:42 PM']Depends on the gig. Dan's in a D&B sort of band, so he needs lots. I'm in a pop band that needs a a few different sounds, and a more theatrical sounding chamber-pop band that I use a good number of different sounds and effects for, and lots of volume pedal.

It's not just about turning one effect off and on either, how about turning off your flanger, delay, compressor and switching to a new eq pattern simultaneously?[/quote]

Yes I can appreciate the facility of switching on/off several effects at once (although this is feasible mechanically anyway) but I think the kind of subtlety you're talking about is a bit of a waste of effort live anyway.

I'm not against using multi-FX (I have an M9 and an Octavius Squeezer that I use live) but if I've got a box that does one thing well I'll use it. There's an octaver on my M9 and I can produce -1 octaves from my Squeezer too but I still use my OC-2 because it sounds the best. Similarly I doubt I'll find a multi that can do what my Bugcrusher does. They're one-trick pedals but this inflexibility is far outweighed by the sounds they make.

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='DanOwens' post='1016504' date='Nov 8 2010, 04:03 PM']You see, I thought about buying that pedal but because it's so different. The sound it creates (apparently a mix between bandpass and ringmod) would further set me out from the crowd. Egocentricity encased in a genuine need to sound cool.[/quote]
i bought it because i've never used a wah or a ring-mod before, and effectively bought two-in-one. i'm looking forward to it. snobbery really shouldn't enter into the equation. there are people who can drive a citroen c1 faster/better than some people would drive a nissan 370. it's what you do with it, not what it looks like, that matters.

[DanOwens]

I realise that we all require different things. I also realise that so far, this has been an intelligent and rational consideration on equipment snobbery and the wider social and psychological factors that shape that behaviour.

To me, snobbery can be taken at face value, but it is the implied social hierarchy that really interests me. What does it take for you to firstly construct a form of hierarchy at a gig, then to insert yourself somewhere within that hierarchy? Also, do you find you want to be higher up even if you assume you're not? I too realise that this is all within single-axis spectra and is at risk of becoming a 'theory-or-groove' type binary argument, but I believe we are better than that as a community and this is a good chance to show it.

Dan

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='DanOwens' post='1016571' date='Nov 8 2010, 05:00 PM']I realise that we all require different things. I also realise that so far, this has been an intelligent and rational consideration on equipment snobbery and the wider social and psychological factors that shape that behaviour.

To me, snobbery can be taken at face value, but it is the implied social hierarchy that really interests me. What does it take for you to firstly construct a form of hierarchy at a gig, then to insert yourself somewhere within that hierarchy? Also, do you find you want to be higher up even if you assume you're not? I too realise that this is all within single-axis spectra and is at risk of becoming a 'theory-or-groove' type binary argument, but I believe we are better than that as a community and this is a good chance to show it.

Dan[/quote]
i can appreciate any good/average player. i just don't like snobs.