Josh

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='363957' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:13 PM']Well I haven't heard the latest album yet so can't comment there, but in terms of the early stuff I only notice the bass when he's playing with massive distortion and wah (IE there's supposed to be a bass solo in Orion, but I don't hear any notes, just a whooshing in the background?). Even Anasthesia (which I always think of (unconsciously) as Euthanasia ) I find fairly unremarkable today- sure its fast, but there's nothing particularly interesting to me- and that's coming from a guy who likes shredding, both on guitar and bass. As ever, your mileage may vary, and I'm happy for all the people Metallica's bassists have inspired, but for me, the most inspiring thing I've hear remains S&M which I think is outstanding. Maybe it was something special back in the early 80s, but today he (and they) have been surpassed by plenty of other bands and players- I'll spare you a list of bassists I think everyone should hear* but there are plenty of exciting players raising the bar for everyone. *although I'd be more than happy to if you want [/quote] +1 Although Cliff was an early inspiration on me, I still find it hard to actually hear his supposed "genius" within the songs themselves. He is only just about audible on the first 3 albums, and even in live performances back then he was still only just about audible, and from what I can make out he isn't exactly playing anything different to James at all. He is a legend but quite overrated when you look into it. Greg Christian of Testament could've easily given Cliff a run for his money back in the mid 80's mind you. S&M is Epic.

[quote name='bubinga5' post='363705' date='Dec 26 2008, 02:49 PM']Yes Josh, but i like to play before i buy..i dont know anywhere in the uk that i could try one out..allways wondered why there so expensive..they cant be that much better than an RV5, maybe im wrong..[/quote] Fair enough. Well I guess The Bass Gallery would probably be one of the very few places that has either sold one or had one in stock, but still I think we need a few more boutique bass shops. The general concencus is that Alleva's are some of the best custom made Jazzes out there, like Fodera, they have such a long custom order time and the prices are much the same. I think Nathan Watts endorses them, I may be wrong though.

[quote name='bubinga5' post='363690' date='Dec 26 2008, 02:10 PM']Hey people..has anyone played an Alleva Coppolo, i would like to try out a 5 string, but have never come across one..they are very expensive!! and was wondering if they are that much better than my Sadowsky. I also love the look of Low End jazzes...Has anyone noticed that the Logo on the headstock of Lowend basses is taken from the Average White band logo?! Never seen an AC on here.. Any experiences???[/quote] Have you tried looking around on TB man?

[quote name='ARGH' post='363692' date='Dec 26 2008, 02:13 PM']NO...Warwick have an endorsement deal running a mile wide,everyone likes free gear and they are hurling it at players,those guys are using Fenders on records,I see the youngsters click clicking tonally and calling it heavy,it sounds sh*t onstage,and it sounds crap on record...Ryan CAN play,and can play mean,but theres no darkness there,it isnt Heavy,its the post-Fieldy sound,it moves no-one,and yeah,the BASS has to be heard above downtuned guitars,but if Butler can cut through,AND still write lines that stand out without having to resort to boxes to fix in the mix,then theres summat very wrong...thats why the big ol'Fenders are still being used in the studio,they dont cause probs. Theres a lot more to metal tone than a Jappo name brand line6 DI'd into a mates studio......[/quote] Ok fair enough thats the way you see it, but all your reply seems to reflect is both a dislike for morden Metal Bassists and Warwicks, which I expected and in some cases I'm forced to agree with you. But your seemingly much more moved by classic Metal which was and still is Fender driven. Thats what you prefer, I can't argue with you about that, why would I want to? Ultimatley niether of us are right, nor are we wrong. If anything Butler wasn't exactly fighting against much distorion back then and his tone has some crunch qaulities to it, so his tone was pretty much guaranteed to stand out, the same goes for JPJ and Steve Harris. P.S. Fieldy's tone dosen't deserve to even be called tone, it's mindless clicking.

[quote name='ARGH' post='363680' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:54 PM']OK,are you going to say that Butlers is the same? THEEE metal tone? WHo is a good tone IYHO?[/quote] I'm afraid so, but thats YOUR idea of THEEE Metal tone, I respect that. Surely your going to disagree with whom I say because: 1. Alot of them play Warwicks/Spectors. 2. Metal is much more over-produced nowadays than it was when you were younger. 3. Your of a different generation of Metal to me. But IMHO of the best bass tones in Metal go to: Ryan Martinie Sam Rivers James Leech Arif Mirabdolbaghi Can we agree to disagree or is that not enough?

[quote name='ARGH' post='363677' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:51 PM']YES yet another example of isolated bass track that sounds crap...throw it in the mix and it works. Great bass tone sounds arse on its own.[/quote] True .

[quote name='ARGH' post='363675' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:50 PM']Thats not an answer....Are you saying Harris's tone is blurry,Webster on 'Butchered' is buried?...[/quote] No, Harris's tone is clicky and harsh, as is Websters. They stand out but IMO not in the way I prefer.

[quote name='TheDarkReaver' post='363674' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:48 PM']Alex Webster uses Spectors these days doesn't he?[/quote] Indeed.

[quote name='ARGH' post='363667' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:37 PM']You do know how many Metal records use P's....how many Bassists use P's.... How old are you? Have you NEVER heard of Sabbath,Maiden,Cannibal Corpse,COC,Sepultura?[/quote] Of course. 19, and Yes/Yes/Yes/Yes/Yes/Yes. In fact I recently found a clip of Alex of CC recording for one of their old albums, and the tone was IMO horrific:

[quote name='ARGH' post='363667' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:37 PM']Even though the Ricky isnt on Ride or Master....[/quote] And the only time you can really tell it's distinctive noise is when it's boosted with distortion and wah. Still, Jason used a 57 P-Bass on Load and Re-Load, as did David Ellefson on Cryptic Writings and Risk. Both albums for each band being the more Blues Rock driven so it had much more of place in the overall sound.

[quote name='ARGH' post='363663' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:32 PM']....clean your ears out..go to the docs and get them waxed[/quote] Nah I'm happy with them the way they are. I still get confused to why some people rave on about Cliff's Rickenbacker tone.

[quote name='ARGH' post='363655' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:17 PM']Eh? How'd you work that out?[/quote] To my ears, P-Basses don't work in alot of Metal situations, though in Hard Rock/Rock they are more appropiate. The P-Bass tone will not help Rob stand out in the mix much and would result in a really boomy mix, and going from his pretty well defined tone of his Zons/Warwick/Tobias's to the King of all things Boomy and undefined is kind of ironic. But hey, it may have just been a one off.

I rather like that! Nice one Andy.

[quote name='ARGH' post='363636' date='Dec 26 2008, 12:57 PM']Its just a Bass guys,in the hands of a Bassplayer....nowt much to cry about.[/quote] Usually I'd almost agree, but Metallica + P-Basses = Vomit.

Umm, I would suggest an EBS HD350 head, but they might just be a bit out of your preferred price range.

God that makes me nauseous. MonekyCrab....Please, just stick to you Zons and your Warwicks.

A Boss RC-50.

[quote name='ARGH' post='363206' date='Dec 25 2008, 01:56 AM']Been looking at the Status site,but it would kill me to buy them.[/quote] Order a set when your pissed next!

I'm only 19 and unlike most guys on here, I actually have a back which isn't buggered from some ancient injury, but picking up just 1 Eden XLT 4x10 was horrific, and my room is up 2 flights of stairs, and I had 2 XLT's, let's just say they went up those stairs once, and stayed there until they bought by someone else.

[quote name='Mr.T' post='363150' date='Dec 24 2008, 11:49 PM']Why? Say more....[/quote] I bought a whole Eden rig ( 2 x XLT 4x10's and WT550) after reading countless reveiws and seeing and hearing various recordings of that very set up in action and was always impressed. To my ear it was the pure Gospel bass tone, Warm, Hi-Fi and sits above the mix with authority. Both my cabs were in great condition and had no faults at all, and the head worked perfectly. At that time I was playing a 1999 Warwick Thumb BO (All wenge neck) and a 1990 Streamer Stage 1 (Modded with Nords), so already being pretty damn growly basses I was hoping for them to go with the rig perfectly. Boy was I wrong. After figuring out all of the pull/push business (Which needs to be done everytime you switch the thing on!) I finally managed to change the EQ, every time I tried I could not achieve a sound remotely near what I had hoped. The only useable tone I got was a very farty like growl and that was only at the lowest volume, turning it up just made it become muddy and very harsh. The treble had no Hi-Fi qaulities to it at all, they just added to the harshness. The head was not able to drive the horns in either cab, both alone and together. I tried 2 new sets of strings on both basses to see if that might of been the reason, but it didn't make any signifcant difference at all. I stuck with the head for a few months, in which I tried a few varied jams and I just got more and more irritated with it until I traded it for an EBS TD 650. As soon as I hooked up the TD650 to the cabs the horns actually made their presence known and the warmth was right there, the Hi-Fi zing I was looking also was now much more apparent and basically the tone I had hoped for from the 550 was just oozing out of the EBS, and the clairty and volume were a major improvement as well. Basically the 550 was a huge let down for me, it might of been a duff one but ultimatley it put me off Eden gear.

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='363186' date='Dec 25 2008, 01:00 AM'] You mean god?[/quote] Don't be a twat!

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='363184' date='Dec 25 2008, 12:58 AM']I may have mentioned before that I dont understand Eden's approach with superlight amps and heavy cabs. Like Josh I would suggest trying EBS or maybe Genz Benz.[/quote] The WT 550 is suprisingly heavy for its size.