OliverBlackman

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1330002573' post='1551136'] No, they probably couldn't. And the reason is that good music transcends good technique and good playing. Technique is not synonymous with musicianship, it's not measurable by the amount of time you've put into learning how to play with impeccable timing and with good theoretical technique. That's what everyone who champions the 'pros' and rubbishes the likes of smaller time bass players don't understand. I went to music school too, but they never taught me this, everyone was just too occupied with technique and theory. I just had to learn it for myself. [/quote] I'm saying you need a combination of technique, theory and musicianship to be as good as the kids i saw playing last night.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1329999952' post='1551054'] I am. I'm doing quite a lucrative one this afternoon actually. Never had a lesson, never learnt any theory, and certainly never paid "ridiculous amounts of money" to be told I have to sound like everyone else on the converyor belt. [/quote] Firstly congrats. Secondly, i can't comment on you or how you play because i don't know you. Most guys who do a lot of top sessions such as laurence cottle, know lots of theory. And to be at his level of expertise when I'm 50 is something i aspire to. [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1330000190' post='1551062'] You have completely missed the point. I can play Chris Squire's lines, you can, but you or I could NOT have created them. If you have no musical ideas, or only naive ones, in your soul, it doesn't matter how well you can play does it? You should stop judging musicians on their psychomotor skills and get the the heart of the art. [/quote] i think musical ideas are a combination of things you've listened to previously and things you know and understand on your freeboard. I definitely don't believe music comes from the soul! Just sounds like hippy bollocks

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1329999941' post='1551052'] In terms of what? Chris Squire can WRITE. Janek Gwizdala or Richard Bona are not anywhere near up there with the likes of Chris squire in terms of being part of a successful writing team, their bank balances may reflect this You simply cannot compare a session musician with a band member. Successful bands tend to be able to communicate feelings and philosophies and observations lyrically and musically in a way a wider audience can relate to. Most session musicians' attempts I've heard have been failures. Session musicians are experts in operating their machines with the requisite level of feel to fulfil someone else's vision in as short a time as possible. Band musicians are very different beasts. [/quote] i agree completely. Trouble is bands are finding it harder and harder to get sustained success in todays industry

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1329999257' post='1551030'] Roles reversed, I don't believe either bassist you've just mentioned could do Chris Squire's job in Yes either, or certainly no better. In the kindest possible way, I think you have a slightly naive view in this respect. [/quote] well they could. I've seen Janek play 3 times and he can definitely cover that material and enjoy it. I had a lesson with steve lawson who IMO is a great virtuoso of the electric bass. i was amazed with how strong he sounded when playing simple lines, much cleaner and clinical than the older guys did. He can definitely play that stuff but chooses not to.

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1329997332' post='1550981'] First point; none of those issues are anywhere near as important as being able to play the right thing for the song. Someone who know his theory back to front and can play at the speed of light in perfect time is still incompetent if they can't play what the song requires, or something that takes the song to the next level. You don't need any real theory at all to be an excellent bass player in most genres, although it certainly isn't necessarily a hindrance and can help a great deal. If you think you do need all that then your emphasis is in the wrong area. It's quite possible to come up with a glorious line without really knowing how you did it or what the theory behind it is. Of course some people need the theory before they can do that, but others don't. By your argument Jeff Berlin (for example) would be one of the best bassists ever in any band situation, in any situation, when quite plainly he wouldn't be (despite what he may think!). Also FWIW, in a lot of bands the band leader / songwriter etc shows the bassist what to play, although the bassist may then get chance to expand on it. I think that's something you'll maybe need to get used to. In a music school it's likely that many of the other bassists you meet will want to be the next Jaco, but in the real world that's not necessarily the case. Two very different environments. Sometimes the time is never right. Learning that can be very difficult; I'm still trying. [/quote] Theres a lot of presumptions your making by my posts. To address your point of playing whats right for the song. I am 100% behind that point. However, there are many many many songs out there. Each song requires something different, and a good player will have the skills to play whats necessary for the part. In some band situation for example, Jeff Berlin's playing might be a perfect. Also the guys you play who you think are keeping it simple, doing big arena tours and stuff can play some incredible stuff that requires huge knowledge of theory. I know this because i know and have seen the young guys in london play when they're not supporting and artist and are just jamming. You presume i'm not used to being told what to play...... If anything that is pretty much what i do all the time, i am very used to it and i am very comfortable with not changing it at all or changing it if it is agreed t can be expanded. In a music school everyone wants to reach their potential. You pay ridiculous amounts of money to learn what i takes to be a successful pro with a long career. I'm told that these are the things to learn so i learn them.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1329996254' post='1550941'] That definition means that 99% of bass players, including all the ones regarded as "The Greats" are incompetent. Chris Squire would be f***ing useless playing jazz or latin music, just as the vast majority of gospel players wouldn't have the first idea what to do in an industrial metal band. Why do some people think bass players have to be masters of every genre or else they're rubbish? I never hear guitarists slagging off BB King because his two handed tapping is sh*t, or saying that Martin Taylor or John Etheridge are crap because they can't play a convincing Country solo. [/quote] This is the problem. I said wide array, not every genre! Chris squire also in my opinion is not anywhere near up there with the likes of Janek Gwizdala or Richard Bona! Not even close. But BB king isn't modern. I don't know who martin taylor or john etheridge are Imagine your a session player. Compared to the amount of sessions done in a studio when marcus miller was just starting out there are very few now (ask any top session player). Because of this if you want to make a living you have to be able to play at the very least; pop, latin, rock, jazz and funk/soul/R&B.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1329995108' post='1550912'] By strange coincidence, I found an envelope stuffed into my letterbox this morning. It contained a transcript of some off-mike dialogue during the most recent U2 recording session. [/quote]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1329985714' post='1550692'] ????? I guess that depends on your definition of a competent player. To me it's someone who does the job required for the music, chops or no (see Risingson's earlier post). I think you'll actually find that many truly "competent players" (using what I suspect is your definition) are quite happy to play either; go and have a chat with Marco Mendoza for one. [/quote] When i think competent i mean someone who can do everything i cant do a few things i see as a good player: Someone who knows the notes on the fretboard in real time Someone with great time feel in a wide array of genres and can stand on their own two feet when a drummer takes off with poly rhythmic ideas. Someone with great sense of harmony and knows when to super-impose, the avoid notes, improvising behind melodies without taking any power from it. There are lots of very capable rock bassists, flea being a personal favourite. However, there are many who are not! Adam Clayton being well known for not having any knowledge of improvising around chords and the edge having to show him what to play. Whereas, in gospel, jazz or latin jazz if your no good it really shows. [quote name='4000' timestamp='1329985821' post='1550695'] The first part being the issue I suspect. [/quote] I'm at a music school, have been for 3 years. [quote name='4000' timestamp='1329986380' post='1550713'] Ah, the sign of a mature musician.... [/quote] I said you naturally want to play them, the best musicians are those that wait until the time is right. All self control innit

also if you've put a lot of time and effort into learning the chops needed to be a good jazz player, you naturally want to show them off, something that is rarely done on bass in rock music.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1329959632' post='1550592'] Classic sweeping statement if ever there was one. I'd be interested to know what you're basing this on? [/quote] i do mean in general terms, I'm not saying that rock bassists are incompetent. But from guys i know, most would rather play the chicken than enter sandman.

there is nothing wrong! Just got back from w3 and JUST WOW! These guys are all between 17 and 25 and they have more talent than most of the old timers! I think its just that rock bores most competent players and so they move on to jazz, funk, neo soul, gospel ect.

apparently they're doing a 3 day masterclass at the ICMP thats open for the public to buy ticket to! £15 for a masterclass with these guys is pretty awesome imo

Yes thats right answer some questions and you can win loads of nice prizes including a Fodera bass and a free entry to the bass bootcamp! Great i thought, i'll sign up! Quickly read through the rules. Rule 1) This competition is open only to 50 states of the USA.

i like all music..... But i love Blur They are themselves, and i find their music really represents them and their experiences! Although they were obviously too pissed for any real stage presence tonight

[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1329820990' post='1547748'] I miss mine too, but that was taken away from me rather than passing it on! The MTD was the replacement. I only had the Overwater for about a year before it was stolen, so I didn't really get that attached to it. [/quote] Nearly sold my overwater.... VERY happy i didn't! But i do regret selling my musicman stingray because it had sentimental values. But at the end of the day it didn't do the job as well as my tokai jazz which was a 1/4 of the price!

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1329780972' post='1547427'] Does the winner also have to write one of those tedious monthly bass student diaries that they have in the UK Bass magazine? [/quote] i thought the first guy that did it was good. Then they just got worse and worse. I always thought i would have loved the opportunity to do that, as it means you've already got experience in journalism making it easier to get jobs reviewing basses. And your endorsed by EBMM!!!!!!!!!

[quote name='deksawyer' timestamp='1329734189' post='1546399'] Well, I'm not going to post any more than this: D. [/quote] kind of like you telling us your wifes a supermodel and then only showing a picture of her birthmark. I don't think that would have sold many copies of playboy

just to point out. These basses aren't collectable and were mostly rubbish! By the mid 80's fender had completely reduced the quality of parts used on their japanese range so they were no longer as good as the US versions. The reason the early JV's are so sought after is because they were better than the US versions, a mistake in marketing which ended up really costing fender. It's because they are a moment in fender's history that they are so collectable. And to conclude, if it seems cheap theres usually a reason.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1329679705' post='1545839'] Never mind that, I want to hear more about this [/quote] indeed.... demanding pics

[quote name='gub' timestamp='1329675735' post='1545714'] seems to have gone now and didnt get chance to see it! [/quote] imagine a jazz bass in shell pink, in great condition...... Then imagine some douchbags ranting about legal issues surrounding how the bass came into the owners possession.

[quote name='cocco' timestamp='1329469268' post='1542808'] I went to school with The Automatic. Not that it's going to earn me any cool points. [/quote] why didn't you stop them!?

ed sheeran was on the higher dip course at ACM same time i was... Never met him though

would love to see it complete

When i started playing (11) it was all about looks. Take the shiniest

audio technica ... although i do like the really high end beats (£300 ones) Also most AKG is good around that money although they have slightly less bass than the audio technica's.