OliverBlackman

good year for jazz so far! Neil Cowley trio's album "The Face of Mount Molehill" is becoming a favourite of mine and also Robert Glasper today released "Black Radio." Spent more time listening than plain at the moment

[quote name='david_l_perry' timestamp='1330349411' post='1555963'] Hope you guys and gals don't forget to come and say Hi to us on the stands.... Myself (EAD) Alan (ACG) and John East (East electronics) are all on the same stand..... Come for a chat ! [/quote] will you be providing a bass to try out your cabs or will i have to bring my own?

sounds good, do you play fretless bass? i can imagine it sounded really good in that mix

http://www.suhrguitars.com/images/colorChart2/ check out shell pink antique.

holy crap its next week! where does the time go..... also does anyone know when it finishes? time wise

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1330171782' post='1553666'] The only way any of us will know if your approach works is if you post clips I reckon [/quote] ok i'll try and jam something out next week

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1330119835' post='1553176'] Please don't take it personally blackmn90, but I (perhaps naively) didn't realise that anyone actually had such a clinical approach towards music! I've always played because I really enjoy making music! It just seems a bit like indulging in conjugal activities with the missus by way of a textbook; " no, no, your ankle needs to be another 2 inches over my shoulder, you're doing it all wrong!" It just wouldn't be quite the same........... Just my 2p worth [/quote] I do still really enjoy music in what i expect a similar way to everyone else. I enjoy the feel of a hooks or riffs that stick in my head, i like the chilled feeling i get when listening to pop/ jazz ballads, and i love the hair on back moments like you get at the end of stairway to heaven when it really kicks in! But i then analyse what is it that they have done, dynamics, articulation, tone, production, choices of notes ect. This then gives me the opportunity to create something with a similar effect consistently. I've often been a band leader and i always bring my idea of using dynamics to really change the feel of a song. Subtle changes can make a big difference and make it much more exciting for the audience. It also means when performing, even if i have learnt 80 songs that month it is easier to remember the song 4 weeks ago because i can have a quick listen and say "ok thats A minor and i start on the 3rd and descend to the 6th and its a funk feel." Just works well for me and my terrible memory. Sorry if i've repeated myself, but i feel this explains my approach much better

Don't know if these have been posted yet but i saw Paul Turner today and he was playing a 5 string PJ made by this luthier. The build quality was excellent and it sounded as big and rich as a top original 60's fender! I honestly thought it was active and was amazed when he said it was passive. http://www.avbasses.com/

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1330027224' post='1551765'] But what would you play if someone said "play something"? [/quote] just tested this. Started with a chord progression and moved into creating a melody around it. After that i would usually look for strong rhythm and expand from there

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1330023358' post='1551679'] What do you say when someone says to you "Say something!" ? [/quote] i would say "why?" And thanks old slapper. Unfortunately I'm just stubborn and far too opinionated for my own good

Damn hippies

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1330016956' post='1551534'] I think you're right. It's not the only way though. I would guess you are quite young too? [/quote] 21 so not really what i would call young [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1330016999' post='1551535'] Interesting approach. I'd rather listen to the music and feel it. The whole reason for having a solid theoretical knowledge is that it should be internalised so that you can just play without thinking about it,yet it is always there in your subconcious and helping to make life easier for you. [/quote] The trouble is Doddy is a lot of the music i get in a studio environment is very undeveloped. But in the jam situation a lot of what i play is what i have been practising in a similar unconscious method to what you describe. Which is why i practise a lot so that i have many choices wherever i am on the bass

[quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1330016345' post='1551514'] This willl probably get lost in the "Silddx Onslaught" but it is an interesting point which has caused me much frustration - what is it a really good player can play something stupidly simple like 8th notes on the 5th fret but it sounds so much better than me playing exactly the same thing. I looked at technique ( which contributes t it ) but TBH my technique is quite othodox. Then it hit me someone like Steve ( who I've also had lessons with ) is playing from inside him , not in some mystical sense but its just more confident and self assured than someone like me. Just as in the same way as me speaking in front of a crowd is going to sound better if I sound conficent rather than speak in a thin wobbly voice [/quote] actually i didn't consider confidence, good point. I think this changes a lot of things. But it is easier to be confident when you know you have the knowhow on how to make sure you can cover up mistakes or turn mistakes into something new. I believe having really strong theory can help in those situations as you know musically when its a good time to come back in and how you can make it sound cool.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1330015709' post='1551504'] Interesting. How do you approach writing bass lines or music? If your bandleader came to a rehearsal with a new song, how would you create a bass line for it? [/quote] It really depends on the music. I normally start by listening to a drum loop or pattern then get some rhythmic ideas form that. If thats not available then i will create something that will fit the genre the band leader is aiming to create. For example a lot of female songwriters i work with write a ballad with just piano and vocals. Then they say "i want it funkier." So i add rhythms i find interesting (i believe these are a combination of ideas my brain has retained from listening/ playing to music and things in everyday life). Harmonically usually from chord tones and scale. I get idea's on how to use them effectively be analysing the content that other players have played and just play what fits the chords and melody. I guess i take a very scientific view to music and I'm the same way in life in general.

[quote name='Wil' timestamp='1330014014' post='1551461'] It's all about emotion. Music done right moves people, and technical correctness doesnt necessarily equal a moving performance, it's all down to the note choice and feel of the musician playing the part and how they react to what they hear. You can approach music from a purely technical aspect, sure, but if you don't feel emotionally affected by what you play first and foremost then I doubt your audience will either. [/quote] [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1330014345' post='1551466'] How do you know what you are saying through your music then? How do you enjoy music? Do you get any emotional reaction to music, or do you simply analyse it? How do you discern whether a performance is good or bad or meaningful? [/quote] In answer to both. When i watch a performance i am watching the body language and listening for articulation and dynamics. The combination of these 3 things is what i think expresses musicality and what i see as the difference between a good performer and someone who's not quite there yet. I work on all 3 of these so i can put across what i guess can be described as a simulation of emotion. Say i'm playing a song that was written about pain; despite the fact i am loving the performance i can still get the idea of pain across using the combination of the 3 things suggested before. Same if i'm really not enjoying the gig i will play and have the body language to suggest i am. It's all fake but importantly its consistent.

[quote name='Wil' timestamp='1330008166' post='1551327'] Who says playing with soul negates any theoretical or technical knowledge? [/quote] thats just the impression i got from siddx's points [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1330008435' post='1551333'] I think you labour under the misapprehension that Beyonce's songs come from jams or something. They are very carefully crafted and refined before anyone gets near a studio. Also, I don't want to be a session musician, I like being in bands. The bands I'm in are quite demanding, especially the sitarist. I have to compose and improvise meaningful guitar pieces, in complex time signatures like 13/4, often requiring me to stick strictly to something like phrygian with no non-diatonic passing notes or chords, often with many structural rules and requirements she imposes from Indian classical music, as the piece progresses. But I approach it from what I feel in my heart, not from theory, I don't know much theory, or the notes on the fingerboard. It's not easy, but it is immensly rewarding and humbling when the magic happens on stage, or in the studio. [/quote] i only chose beyonce because its a big name and they would be a lot of pressure to get it right. And there are still records by artists such as beyonce that are written by musicians jamming stuff out. I play for a new indie label and to start off we played what was written but we then found if we jam a song with the band and then the mc or vocalist can freestyle over the top and get some ideas. Interestingly i watch a documentary on Guy Chambers and Mark Ronson collaborating to write an artist a new song. They did via jamming. Also bruno mars was in a group of musicians that wrote Cee Lo Greens album. At the end of the day all that matters is that you get the results for what you need. I'm just saying imo one day that will let you down if you didn't have some theory. Which you seem to have anyway...... I stand by my belief that "music from the heart is hippy bollocks" and your not going to change that. End of

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1330006192' post='1551277'] Where on earth do you get this from? [/quote] edited to say i wasn't around, TYPO please forgive me. I've read the Ann Harrison music business book, Bobby Owswinski music business book, i have many great and experienced lecturers, and have had lots of business orientated guest lectures from people who have retired from working for record labels or who still do. It's something i have great interest in and this is what i have been told from them. Sorry if i believe their opinions over someone i don't know on a bass forum,

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1330006138' post='1551274'] I turn up and play what I've been told to play, and do it with style, feeling and panache, in one take. Did I really answer such a ridiculous question? [/quote] what if they want some funk thing in A minor? If you don't have any stylistic awareness then how are going to know that they want something most likely 8th or 16th note based and probably using A dorian and chromatics? Your making it sound like you think you don't need to know because you've got something in your soul that makes you a good player.

[quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1330004449' post='1551221'] They never did take risks. [/quote] I must admit i wasn't around then and my only reference to what it was like is from the experiences of those who have taught me and from what i've read in books and online articles. What they've all seemed to say is that the record labels spent more money on developing artists whereas these days they don't want to do that so the only sign ready made products. And going back to hippy bollocks. What happens when your inspiration (from the soul) runs out but you've been booked into the studio for beyonce's latest record and you only have 3 takes to record it?

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1330003265' post='1551164'] Not really, it's always been very hard. Bands are at the mercy of markets and lowest common denominators of public acceptance. However, the public and musicians have far more power now due to recent communications technology advances. Unfortunately money is still the key to breaking through from small time success to great success, bands need marketing budget and infrastructure, this is where I think the record companies will find their new niche. [/quote] major record companies aren't taking risks with bands like they used to. To get with a major record label as a band you need to have already achieved a good level of success. Ed Sheeran being a good example. [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1330003491' post='1551177'] So what you've just written is a combination of things you've read previously and things you know and understand on your keyboard? Hippy bollocks? You have no ideas of your own you want to express through your instrument? You have no message for the people? You have no soapbox to stand on? Nothing to say at all? Just a combination of external influences and some fretboard skills. Pity you. [/quote] You say pity me but i enjoy what i do and thats enough for me

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1330002573' post='1551136'] No, they probably couldn't. And the reason is that good music transcends good technique and good playing. Technique is not synonymous with musicianship, it's not measurable by the amount of time you've put into learning how to play with impeccable timing and with good theoretical technique. That's what everyone who champions the 'pros' and rubbishes the likes of smaller time bass players don't understand. I went to music school too, but they never taught me this, everyone was just too occupied with technique and theory. I just had to learn it for myself. [/quote] I'm saying you need a combination of technique, theory and musicianship to be as good as the kids i saw playing last night.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1329999952' post='1551054'] I am. I'm doing quite a lucrative one this afternoon actually. Never had a lesson, never learnt any theory, and certainly never paid "ridiculous amounts of money" to be told I have to sound like everyone else on the converyor belt. [/quote] Firstly congrats. Secondly, i can't comment on you or how you play because i don't know you. Most guys who do a lot of top sessions such as laurence cottle, know lots of theory. And to be at his level of expertise when I'm 50 is something i aspire to. [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1330000190' post='1551062'] You have completely missed the point. I can play Chris Squire's lines, you can, but you or I could NOT have created them. If you have no musical ideas, or only naive ones, in your soul, it doesn't matter how well you can play does it? You should stop judging musicians on their psychomotor skills and get the the heart of the art. [/quote] i think musical ideas are a combination of things you've listened to previously and things you know and understand on your freeboard. I definitely don't believe music comes from the soul! Just sounds like hippy bollocks

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1329999941' post='1551052'] In terms of what? Chris Squire can WRITE. Janek Gwizdala or Richard Bona are not anywhere near up there with the likes of Chris squire in terms of being part of a successful writing team, their bank balances may reflect this You simply cannot compare a session musician with a band member. Successful bands tend to be able to communicate feelings and philosophies and observations lyrically and musically in a way a wider audience can relate to. Most session musicians' attempts I've heard have been failures. Session musicians are experts in operating their machines with the requisite level of feel to fulfil someone else's vision in as short a time as possible. Band musicians are very different beasts. [/quote] i agree completely. Trouble is bands are finding it harder and harder to get sustained success in todays industry

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1329999257' post='1551030'] Roles reversed, I don't believe either bassist you've just mentioned could do Chris Squire's job in Yes either, or certainly no better. In the kindest possible way, I think you have a slightly naive view in this respect. [/quote] well they could. I've seen Janek play 3 times and he can definitely cover that material and enjoy it. I had a lesson with steve lawson who IMO is a great virtuoso of the electric bass. i was amazed with how strong he sounded when playing simple lines, much cleaner and clinical than the older guys did. He can definitely play that stuff but chooses not to.

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1329997332' post='1550981'] First point; none of those issues are anywhere near as important as being able to play the right thing for the song. Someone who know his theory back to front and can play at the speed of light in perfect time is still incompetent if they can't play what the song requires, or something that takes the song to the next level. You don't need any real theory at all to be an excellent bass player in most genres, although it certainly isn't necessarily a hindrance and can help a great deal. If you think you do need all that then your emphasis is in the wrong area. It's quite possible to come up with a glorious line without really knowing how you did it or what the theory behind it is. Of course some people need the theory before they can do that, but others don't. By your argument Jeff Berlin (for example) would be one of the best bassists ever in any band situation, in any situation, when quite plainly he wouldn't be (despite what he may think!). Also FWIW, in a lot of bands the band leader / songwriter etc shows the bassist what to play, although the bassist may then get chance to expand on it. I think that's something you'll maybe need to get used to. In a music school it's likely that many of the other bassists you meet will want to be the next Jaco, but in the real world that's not necessarily the case. Two very different environments. Sometimes the time is never right. Learning that can be very difficult; I'm still trying. [/quote] Theres a lot of presumptions your making by my posts. To address your point of playing whats right for the song. I am 100% behind that point. However, there are many many many songs out there. Each song requires something different, and a good player will have the skills to play whats necessary for the part. In some band situation for example, Jeff Berlin's playing might be a perfect. Also the guys you play who you think are keeping it simple, doing big arena tours and stuff can play some incredible stuff that requires huge knowledge of theory. I know this because i know and have seen the young guys in london play when they're not supporting and artist and are just jamming. You presume i'm not used to being told what to play...... If anything that is pretty much what i do all the time, i am very used to it and i am very comfortable with not changing it at all or changing it if it is agreed t can be expanded. In a music school everyone wants to reach their potential. You pay ridiculous amounts of money to learn what i takes to be a successful pro with a long career. I'm told that these are the things to learn so i learn them.