stevie

[quote name='Machines' post='246052' date='Jul 23 2008, 01:21 PM']Chill out man ! Winding people up is what some people choose to do, and you reacting to it is taking the bait.[/quote] I can say, hand on heart, that I never had any intention of winding Alex up.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='246015' date='Jul 23 2008, 12:38 PM']A 15" wet halibut has an excellent off-axis slapping response, but once you go further than 45 degrees the impact tends to lessen to a kind of scaley stroke.[/quote] I’m an old school slapper myself, but I know many modern slappers who find the scaley stroke quite unacceptable. If the 45-degree off-axis slapping response of your 15-inch halibut is a problem, might I suggest using four 10-inch halibuts instead? I would, however, strongly advise against using a 15-inch halibut at the same time as four smaller ones, because the results can be unpredictable.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='246001' date='Jul 23 2008, 12:18 PM']Sorry, your brand of highly intelligent ironic humour is lost on me![/quote] I much prefer a pie in the face myself, too. At least you know where you are.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='245976' date='Jul 23 2008, 11:58 AM']Lol, no I want the last word!!![/quote] And you shall have it, sir. :-)

[quote name='Machines' post='245907' date='Jul 23 2008, 10:51 AM']Gentlemen. You both appear to have lost the plot and seem to be using this thread as a method to score points from each other. I suggest if you wish your debate this further, that you take it to PM, as you have veered off-topic at the expense of answering the original posters question.[/quote] I couldn't agree more.

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='245886' date='Jul 23 2008, 10:22 AM']Guys. While my SA450 and 1212L are fine for most gigs i have a few bigger ones coming up that i know will force me to push the master higher than i would like to on my SA450. I find that after about 1 o'clock i dont get much more volume, just more compression/limiting so i might get a cheap power amp. Any ideas what's worth getting based on the fact that i dont want to spend a load (obvious), don't really need more than 1000watts max, in to 4 ohms and light would be good but i know im asking a lot as the digital ones seem very expensive. I know there are the Bheringer amps and while im not against getting one i want to see what else is around. While i know i wont need even close to 1000watts its the head room im after. comments?[/quote] The Behringer amps have a surprisingly decent reputation in the pro world. Visit this site: [url="http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/default.asp"]http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/default.asp[/url] and check out the Amp Forum. There are lots of pros on there who really know their onions and I'm sure you'll pick up some useful info.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='244865' date='Jul 21 2008, 10:03 PM']Off-axis response as a function of cone diameter assumes that the cone operates as a single pistonic radiator. In the case of extended range musical instrument and pro-sound drivers the dome acts as an independant midrange radiator, and the response both on and off-axis is not a function of cone diameter alone.[/quote] I’ve got to hand it to you, Bill. Anyone else caught with their pants down using two completely contradictory arguments to prove the same point would have the good grace to hold their hands up and say, “OK, what I really meant was....”. Not you! You cannot resist disappearing up a blind alley and trying to blind us with science – single pistonic radiator indeed. Lol! You’ll be telling me the Eminence has a whizzer cone next! Hang on, that *is* what you are saying! I read a doctoral thesis on drive unit simulation some time back (I’m sure I could find a reference) where the candidate tested drive units to see if they followed the expected theory for off-axis rollof. They did, except that there was sometimes a small amount of extra off-axis output as a result of cone breakup. As neither of the Eminences have particularly well behaved cones (to put it mildly), we might expect a little bit of that. However, I notice Eminence doesn’t publish any off-axis frequency response curves. So, the onus is on you to prove the point really, if you can. Eminence certainly doesn’t claim any magic whizzer properties for their Kappalite cones. I have here a series of tests on 12” drivers, 14 in all, carried out with MLSSA using different makes and types of driver, mostly PA, but some hi-fi. With only one exception, they drop 6dB thirty degrees off axis between 1 and 2kHz. As you would expect. But enough of that. If you are reduced to claiming that one 15” driver is better than another on the basis of its 45 degree off-axis response above 1kHz, you have already lost the argument - because it really doesn’t matter.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='245824' date='Jul 23 2008, 04:04 AM']Check the publication date on that obsolete link. As opposed to this one: [url="http://www2.jblpro.com/catalog/general/ProductFamily.aspx?FId=10&MID=3"]http://www2.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Pro...Id=10&MID=3[/url][/quote] I already conceded the point that the SRX series uses neos. That hardly backs up your claim that JBL does not use the 2226H in its current prosound offerings though, does it? [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='245824' date='Jul 23 2008, 04:04 AM']Also consider getting a life. [/quote] I’m not the nitpicker here, if you haven’t noticed. I didn’t start this sub-thread - you did. And you are the one keeping it going, even though you were proved wrong some time ago and you have absolutely nothing useful to say. You are also the one introducing yawn-inducing irrelevancies to the discussion, such as the 45 degree off-axis response of 15-inch speakers, and navel-gazing observations like how the dome on a PA speaker acts as an independent radiator. You have an interesting way of dealing with being wrong. You introduce irrelevances and then resort to insults.

[quote name='jhk' post='245625' date='Jul 22 2008, 07:33 PM']I`ve tried your suggestion and hey presto,at least I know the horn works. So the problem is within the circuit board or components.I`ve run the tester over the components and the one marked T.I 15 OhF 5% MEA 200VDC is not letting any signal or circuit go through! is that the crossover? can i get diagrams or specific components from peavey?[/quote] Would that be 15 uF? Sound like a film cap. Can you measure capacitance with your meter? To confirm that it's not working, bypass it with some wire - keep the volume low, obviously. It would be very unusual for a 200V filmcap to go in an HF circuit. It's a bit difficult to troubleshoot blind at this distance but I'll try to help (although I'm only here now and then). If the crossover uses an L-pad (like a volume control), chances are that's what's gone.

[quote name='Merton' post='245359' date='Jul 22 2008, 01:51 PM']Anything up to the early SMX ranges. Preferably Series 6 and either 7- or 12-band [/quote] Thanks, Merton.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='244865' date='Jul 21 2008, 10:03 PM']The SRX715 and SRX725 have used the 2256 neo magnet woofer since 2004.[/quote] I don’t know why you’ve even come back to me on this one: the fact that you have ignored and snipped my mention of the Cinema Series shows you know you are wrong. The SRX series is shown using the 2226H on the current JBL Pro website. [url="http://www.jblpro.com/pages/mi/srx/srx.htm"]http://www.jblpro.com/pages/mi/srx/srx.htm[/url] They also seem to be on sale at retail outlets. If my information is wrong, blame JBL. Not that it matters. It only takes a single exception to disprove your blanket statement that the 2226 isn't used in current JBL prosound systems. However, for the sake of completeness, the 2008 JBL catalogue shows that the 2226H is used in the following systems at least. There may well be more, but my time for this kind of nonsense is limited. Variable Line Array Series PD5125 VLA301 VLA601 VLA901 Precision Directivity Series PD5125 Cinema Series 3631 5672 5674 3678 4675 - and not in the catalogue but listed on the website: Dance Club Series Dance 3 Permanent Install Products CST51DQ So, I humbly submit that the 2226H is indeed current and is indeed used in JBL’s current prosound offerings - although I’m not sure what proving it does. After all, a 4-year old Mercedes S-Class is always going to be a better quality car than a brand new Ford focus.

[quote name='stingrayfan' post='244459' date='Jul 21 2008, 02:46 PM']It's the sound you'll be left with when you've forgotten the price. And if you like the way it sounded - go for it. I'd be tempted to take it out of its sleeve and put it in a rack anyway.[/quote] I don't wish to hijack this thread, but which of the cheaper, less powerful Trace Elliot heads (including the old ones) would you recommend?

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='244699' date='Jul 21 2008, 07:03 PM']Still in production, but hardly current. The telling point is that JBL no longer uses it in their current pro-sound cabinet offerings. JBLs top of the line drivers have been neo for nigh on a decade, but they are not sold as separate components.[/quote] JBL uses the 2226 in its current SR-X series and in its Cinema loudspeakers - both pro-sound cabinet offerings. Why don't you check your assertions before serving them up to us as facts?

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='244699' date='Jul 21 2008, 07:03 PM']On-axis plots may give that indication, but off-axis response is what matters. At 45 degrees off-axis the 2226 drops like a stone above 1kHz, and is down (and out as it were) by 16dB at 1.5kHz.[/quote] The off-axis performance of a 2226H is a function of its diameter. It is no better or worse (and its response doesn’t drop off any faster) than any other 15 inch driver. Just a few messages ago you were praising the superior high frequency extension of the Eminence 3015. Now you are telling us that the JBL’s midrange extension is irrelevant because its response – like every other 15-inch speaker - drops off above 1kHz. If you serve up two completely contradictory statements like this, why should anyone believe either?

[quote name='alexclaber' post='241879' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:34 PM']The main problem I've had with most non-Eminence woofer designs is that they are either designed as mid-bass or midrange drivers for PA and thus Xmax and Qts are too low or Fs too high so they can't handle or create the bottom or they're designed as PA subwoofers and the problem is reversed with a resultant loss of sensitivity and midrange output. If you can direct me to a better 15" for bass guitar, or even a good 10" or 12", I'd be very interested to see.[/quote] You're right: it’s difficult to design a long excursion woofer that performs well in the midrange, but you’re wrong if you think Eminence has a solution in the Kappalite. Why do you think they have two versions? The JBL 2226H, on the other hand, pulls off the trick of having long excursion, high power handling and good quality extended midrange.

[quote name='chris_b' post='240261' date='Jul 15 2008, 06:10 PM']Why are you replacing the speakers? Do they just need reconing?[/quote] Just what I was thinking. They should be able to send you a recone kit. Are they under warranty?

[quote name='billynoband' post='241877' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:33 PM']If you put numbers in Winsd you get something big enough to hang your wifes clothes in. Anyone else noticed that. [/quote] Also, - winsd doesn't model floor reinforcement nor (as far as I can remember) the cabinet response step. The curve you get in winsd is actually nothing like real life.

[quote name='billynoband' post='241877' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:33 PM']If you put numbers in Winsd you get something big enough to hang your wifes clothes in. Anyone else noticed that. [/quote] You have to know what you want your system to do. If you let winsd dictate cabinet size, it will suggest standard alignments, which aren't necessarily what you want.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='241793' date='Jul 17 2008, 02:53 PM']+1. As good as the 2226 was when introduced it's day is long over. Consider that even JBL has not used them in their high end products for years. As a standalone driver the 3015 has twice the useable bandwidth, while as a pure woofer the 3015LF at half the weight has twice the displacement limited power input capability. If all you desire is a simple cabinet the horse's mouth can be found at [url="http://www.eminence.com/resources/cabinets.asp"]http://www.eminence.com/resources/cabinets.asp[/url][/quote] I checked, and the 2226H is actually a current model. So it’s day isn’t over at all - especially as there are a number of other manufacturers selling very close copies (Beyma, RCF, Usher and other less well known companies). Interestingly, Eminence tried to copy it at one point, and I tested that one, too - but it sounded goddam awful in the mid. The 3015 doesn’t have twice the useable bandwidth – look at the JBL spec sheet - nor twice the displacement limited power input capacity for that matter. It is lighter though (doh!), so you got that right. The 3015 may be the bee's knees, especially at its dollar price, but that doesn't detract from the fact that the JBL is a 2226H is still a superb driver.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='241763' date='Jul 17 2008, 02:01 PM']You do indeed need to update your information. I have modelled countless 10", 12" and 15" drivers from all those names and the Kappalites consistently come out extremely well regardless of price. The 2226H looks more comparable to a 3015LF (though has less Xmax and weighs a lot more) in that the treble extension is very limited and thus really needs a midrange speaker unless you only play dub/reggae. Alex[/quote] I think you'll find there's a bit more to it than putting the numbers in winsd, Alex.

[quote name='RichardH' post='241705' date='Jul 17 2008, 01:05 PM']Recommendations?[/quote] My hands-on experience is a bit out of date, I'm afraid. My favourite bass driver when I was in the business was the JBL 2226H. I don't think they make them any more but you can pick one up on eBay for seventy or eighty pounds. For tone, thump and output, it takes some beating and I don't think there is much to compare with it even today. There's also the JBL K140, but they are a bit rare. Companies like RCF, Fane, B&C and 18Sound are all making good quality drivers, but they cost from around £150 up. The problem with Eminence is that they are built down to a price to suit the OEM market, which means you are likely to end up with something that sounds very ordinary indeed. I know that's not going to go down well on this forum, and I haven't tried their latest speakers, but I tested the entire range at one time, and I just could not get a quality sound from them. I'm not saying 'don't use them', but I'm saying - be aware. I wouldn't mind betting that a JBL 2226H in your cabinet would outperform any comparable bass cabinet currently on the market. Could be worth a punt.