LawrenceH

Do you think the coloration is the inherent response of your design, or is it cabinet mechanical resonance at higher power levels (ie could stiffer material/bracing fix it)?

The 3012HO is a 'better' (more powerful) driver [i]on paper[/i] than the Faital 12PR300, which would be more directly comparable to the Deltalite (2.5" voice coil, similar rated excursion, wattage, broadband sensitivity). But I've not heard the 12PR300, however I have been doing a lot of reading about driver design as well as a lot of listening to speakers, and I think the paper doesn't tell you as much as it seems especially if you go by the usual measures of xmax, wattage, T-S specs and f-response charts. Xmax is an especially over-simplified/over-used measure, that seems to be touted in basscabland as the be-all and end-all when it comes to judging output at high power. For one thing, some drivers behave a lot better beyond 'x-max' than others, and I think that how they start to misbehave differs a lot in audibility/objectionability as well. Smoothness isn't all about the f-response chart either, you can EQ a speaker 'flat' but a good clean PA driver will still sound less coloured than one with poorly suppressed resonances. Comes down to the usual old cliche that you have to let your ears be the judge

[quote name='Alexthemack' timestamp='1370782108' post='2105416'] I'm in love with my hotrod-red Jag bass - it feels solid and well-made, plays beautifully, and looks the BOMB - but I keep wanting to get more of a P-bass sound from it at the moment. Thought it might be a cool idea to replace the neck pickup with p-bass pickups. Is this wise? Will I get the tones I want? Short of trading in for a P/J Deluxe or something of course... But I don't think I want to get rid of this big ol' red cutie just yet... [/quote] If the routing is an issue, try a DiMarzio Model J, it does a pretty convincing P impression especially when wired in series.

If it's like my Jap basses (one's an export Aerodyne) then it's a polyurethane or polyester, ie a 2-part catalysed finish - be really surprised if you could do anything other than cause more damage with heat. If you want to check, put a small amount of acetone on a cotton bud and try it somewhere inconspicuous like the neck pocket - nitro or acrylic will soften, it won't do anything to poly. I'd suggest a car acrylic as close a colour as you can find, spray this on, wait a week or two (it really does take a while to harden) then blend with very fine finishing paper like iceonaboy suggests. If necessary repeat with a clearcoat.

That's interesting Pete - for some reason I can't remember, there was something that suggested Deltalite to me but the revelation that it's not would count as a plus in my book - I've been playing with a Faital 8" unit and it is a nice driver. Also just starting to build a compact PA subwoofer around their 15FH520, a lightweight 15" monster, hoping/expecting it to do good things! I'll post up some details on the DIY section at some point just in case anyone's interested in either project. Been talking to a structural engineer who specialises in wood which has been rather enlightening in terms of understanding lightweight cabinet construction.

IIRC there was some discussion as the designs were developed about which drivers to use, and the Barefaced went with Beyma for the midrange while the fEarful went with 18Sound, probably due to availability. I could be wrong about this, but I think the frequency response charts from 18sound themselves were done minus dustcap and as result there is a resonance peak which shows up in real life in the upper-mid/treble range, that's not on the chart. It's possible that later iterations of the fEarful crossover have dealt with that though. The recommended 18sound tweeter on the fEarful is almost certainly a nicer unit than the rather long-in-the-tooth Eminence APT80 (common on many bass cabs, including Barefaced and Bergantino I think). Probably not much of an issue for a bass cab though, especially given how high they'll cross over in a 3-way design.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1370908116' post='2107444'] Not sure what you're getting at here! Bergantino cabs are never "too much of a good thing" for any style. [/quote] How you love your Bergs All I'm saying is that stack speakers and you change the frequency response (as well as distortion) compared to a single, so if you get it sounding just perfect with one cab it won't be exactly the same adding a second cab, the physics says 'no'.

I'd be very interested to see what you've come up with, are you using software to assist in this? A strict transmission line is a bit impractical as a bass cab, but a hybrid 'mass-loaded transmission line' would be fun to explore if you feel so inclined. Others will disagree. My own feeling is that although the empirical descriptions are different for each, a bass reflex, transmission line and horn all behave according to the same physics and a good mathematical model describes all of them successfully - a geometry that's somewhere in between will share some of the features of each approach, so its up to you to decide whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages for your application/preferences. Subjectively, TLs can sound very nice for some reason!

I know what you're saying - for some types of playing you don't want too much boom, a tighter sound is where it's at. The output from two speakers stacked is only fully constructive below a certain frequency so you will get a more even bass/low mid boost, right in a region that can interact with rooms, and then more listener-dependent combing effects at higher frequencies, which means you can lose some of the higher harmonic definition - that's one reason why an 810 is not just the sound of a 110 magnified to our ears. The heft that Discreet talks about is definitely where a lot of players have the meat of their sound, and it works well for certain genres - if the J12 plays like the J10s I have, then it has tons of that low-mid boost already. I think the Bergs are voiced similarly down there albeit not so pronounced, so if you stack them it could easily be too much of a 'good thing' for some styles and definitely in certain rooms.

There is probably a difference between a sound engineer's 'mid-priced' PA and what people who don't do sound count as 'mid-priced' Among the former, I'd say the QSC K12 would be worth a look. There are big advantages to an active speaker of that quality - the inherent gains in volume and distortion of bi-amping, but also the DSP correction/bass management which means they can push the woofer harder without causing overexcursion. A passive system just can't match that without a lot of extra outboard.

I've known the Beatles stuff since I was a tiddler so I just enjoyed them for what they were, which IMO was a great band who evolved an awful lot over a very short timescale (I can't think of any other pop artists who made that many albums in that much time). But, listening to them for the first time as an adult with an already extensive listening history is bound to be different. Lots is going to sound derivative/obvious until you put it in the context of when it was happening. I can say for sure, learning their songs as a child, breaking down how they worked, was a great and very accessible musical education in pop music harmony, melody/polyphony and arrangement.

Bassman's right, a PA approach is the way to get 'transparent'. If it's too ruthlessly clear, you may find that high quality reproduction at high volume exposes previously unnoticed deficiencies of the zoom unit!

If it's just for rehearsal and you already have a compact, why not make the weight/size saving worthwhile and go for a ten inch unit? I use one loaded with the celestion ntr ten from a markbass f1 and always have volume in reserve, it is a nice driver.

Hmm, I would not be very happy with that deal if I was the singer! The Genz use nice cast-frame woofers... so the cost compromise comes somewhere else less critical for bass guitar, ie the 4kHz crossover point, too high for a 12" driver without seriously compromising dispersion and increasing distortion right in a critical register for vocals. Plus, these speakers are OEMs voiced for bass guitar - I'd be very surprised if the cab's output was near flat. Having said that, the Carlsbros are probably not great either and could be even worse, but my opinion is that the money would be far better spent on smaller speakers designed with vocal reproduction in mind. After all, the voice is normally most important in 60s/70s pop!

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1369873334' post='2093906'] I'm also wondering if you feel the bands you are a fan of owe you something. And what they owe you. [/quote] Great question IMO, because it looks at ownership of music/creative output in a different way than the usual. 'We owe it to the fans...', tacit acknowledgement that a big part of the success of a band is (always?) due to fans' free word-of-mouth/publicity as well as direct financial input. Some people's emotional investment in these things is massive - their mistake to make perhaps if the 'relationship' is one-way, but I think a lot of artists feel a certain obligation to these fans nonetheless, for good and bad. Could make an argument that the best artists in one sense are those who continue to evolve, but in a way that takes people along with them to places they didn't expect. My own favourite music looking back is the stuff that mixed what I already liked with something new, that I had to learn to appreciate and sent me in a new direction as a listener.

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1369917296' post='2094424'] ...I'll get me coat. [/quote] Yes. Yes, I think you probably should

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1369916175' post='2094394'] Hmm. I'd like to see some figures for dB losses through an empty stud wall with double-skinned plasterboard and one filled with rockwool. I'd bet on there being very little difference. [/quote] Have a look at that link I posted - insulation is supposed to reduce cavity resonance.

There's a useful introductory guide to soundproofing techniques here: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing101/ Soundonsound magazine's website/forum is also good for advice on both soundproofing and acoustic treatment. Agree completely about the ventilation, the top issues for our band in Edinburgh choosing between rehearsal rooms were room sound quality and air quality! (then drum kit quality)

[quote name='barklama' timestamp='1369867739' post='2093858'] how do people rate these cabs for the sort of music i am doing? [/quote] A good friend of mine uses the Markbass cabs in quite a funky/souly functions band, with a Marcus Miller bass 5 - he gets an excellent sound that fits well with the band and genre. In fact, any time I've heard Markbass cabs used, and when I've tried them myself, they've sounded good to my ears particularly with a jazz bass.

[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1369756329' post='2092376'] This was my other thought. Why not get myself a class D head, which isnt a big deal to carry about all the time, and just get a small 8" cab for the gigs I dont need my full amp. Although I love my LH500, I more or less use it as a power amp these days. Money is an issue for this route, and I cant be without an amp for any length of time. [/quote] Almost anything is lighter than an LH500! But the MB200 is especially small even for a Class D amp,and has a nice clear sound which I think would help you hear it onstage. I was very keen on getting a bus-friendly setup and ended up pairing a Markbass F1 with a DIY 10" neo cab - it works really well and I have indeed taken it on the bus on numerous occasions, together with bass, however I could definitely manage happily with even less than this for the purpose you describe. Only issue is that there aren't many good lightweight 8" cabs on the market, the Genz might be worth a look but for maximum value I'd definitely be inclined to make my own - plus that way you could make it a combo with the head, if preferred. There are a couple of excellent 8" drivers out there, can point you in the right direction if you're interested. This route wouldn't save you money compared to a small monitor, but it would give you excellent sound quality and portability for a relatively modest outlay.

If you want adequate volume from a smaller speaker, then it's best to compensate for lack of size with more watts, especially as watts are now cheap and weigh virtually nothing. Pairing something like a GK MB200 with an 8 or perhaps even a 6" driver would give you the power needed in a ridiculously small footprint.

I've done both ends as well - fairly common amongst bassists it seems, perhaps you could make the case that bassists naturally develop an ear for the whole band sound! I think it's interesting and useful to consider the sound of bass guitar on records. First, it's always, always very heavily compressed. Even bass that sounds open, natural and dynamic will have a lot of 'transparent' dynamic control happening. Second, it's unusual to have a lot of actual bass in the sound - all those discussions about the need for high-power, high-excursion woofers etc etc, well hifis don't have them, by and large, and radio stations won't broadcast stuff that's too bass-heavy without squashing it back anyway. Even dub bass, on commercial records, typically gets that dubby tone around the 100 to 300ish Hz region. Yes live sound is different from recording and I'd mix much more bass-heavy live, but to my ears a lot of live sound engineers are far too keen on the sound of their subs (crossed somewhere around 80-130Hz) and don't understand where the critical frequencies are for 'tone', ie the upper-bass through the midrange. This also afflicts the drum kit, especially at festivals - makes me wince hearing that 'rock' thump/click kick drum stamping all over a gentle acoustic ballad! Or hearing the snare through the subs... Btw I am coming to realise recently just how much, if you want an up-front, growly sound that still sits in the mix nicely and is 'SE friendly', then a well set-up fast compressor is a very useful tool indeed - even better if it's multiband, or perhaps two in series! You do need to know how to set them though - a live SE should but quite possibly doesn't, and unruly spikes from the stage sound can still mess up his mix. That applies to guitar too, especially when there's substantial overlap with the bass.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1369050749' post='2084208'] Do you think "Mr. Landlord" will sound good through that? [/quote] Haha, it will so long as you play it better than I managed on the recording! That was about 5 days in after loading a van up with gear in Devon, driving to Edinburgh, setting up the recording 'studio' in the cottage and then playing for hours and hours each day. Brain frazzled, fingers destroyed - my timing in the little break bits is about as atrocious as it could possibly be despite simplifying the line...I cringed a bit when I listened back when setting up for mixing shame because I think it's a nice line overall

Signal:noise ratio matters most when taking a very quiet input, like a mic or instrument out - I wouldn't worry about it at all for things at line level, it's more important that you don't clip them and it's usual to run things on inserts at unity gain - I definitely wouldn't go boosting the GEQ output, if it has been designed properly then it will have been designed to use in this manner. If your desk has main inserts, I'd use them for the main GEQ/compressor etc, they can be very quickly unplugged in an emergency