JTUK

Not my gig to argue over, tbh. If it were offered to us, we would look closer, and as with all these things, you need to know the whole deal.

I take my time buying and getting used to the idea of that bass. I have in mind that I don't need 3 basses and am very happy with the 2. I don't plan to sell, so my only question is can I justify the 3..? They will all be used but probably not all at the same time at a gig. I take my two and am happy with that. I am not very likely to buy one and make such a mistake, from my POV, that I need to sell it on very quickly... but this place does offer up more basses to view...and also offers the chance to sell again, so spending a fair amount on a bass is less daunting. I have my eyes on 2 atm..and am trawling back thru a few months to see if I have missed what I am looking for. Top of the list would be a Celinder, Sei J and maybe a Sadowsky or AC. All in 5 string Jazzes. It may well be that I have to take a bit of a blind punt.. depending where they are, so this stops you in your tracks somewhat.

Damn this thread... I now have gas for a Fender J5 deluxe... Sunburst and red tort, RW, block and bound would be just the ticket.

Plus one on the hot tub and hookers It seems that you are booked as an integral part of the event and I was going to say that all the nitty gritty comes into a final negotiating stance. I think they are getting a good deal on the face of it... as you are playing 4 x 40 mins for you 'fee/exes' It seems odd that you are doing so many slots and you may well have to swap with other bands between your slots..?? so as long as you think it is all ok, then all good alround. The thing about holding out for the fees..whatever they may be, is that you must be prepared to walk away if it is not enough or to your liking. The other thing is that we all do loss leading gigs of some sort, I'm sure, so if the value is in being seen by x number of people then you have to reconcile to that. We get round this by paying the guys the min amount we agree a gig is worth doing ( which happens to be £270, atm ) If a very nice proposition comes along and it doesn't/can't hit the fee, we have to decide if it is worth it to fund it ourselves.

It is all about who is buying what you are selling. Obviously venues/bookers may have to take a punt on an unknown entity/band so they aren't likely to pay 'top dollar' straight away. There will always be nervy moments in the transaction: the band might know they aren't ready for their first gig, and the LL can hardly know what will turn up until the night. There are things that mitigate..track records, known players, etc etc but both LL and band should be gearing up to making a splash in terms of performance and attendence. This endears both parties to a good working relationship. We tend to wrok with LL we like and we think are fair. We held a price for a very long time in this good faith and now we need to renegoiate as the pub - thru their own very good efforts- and us are on a much better footing with regards to the way the whole gig works. But, yes, to think there is no correlation between the fee and attendence is naive. The best gigs have this decent balance with both parties happy all round. Also, one of the locals round here has worked very hard to get established as a music pub and so his regulars and the bands pull add upto very good nights. The trick here now, IMO,is to keep the standard going so those will all be returnees. How hard that is, is another thing? FWIW, It helps if bands that play places also go back as a punter

Do you know the other bands? Could you get an idea what their deal is. In effect this is two gigs so price as such. Basically for a free gig, you want food and drink rider and pertol. I'd say £100 for fuel ..max for the both days and 1 pass per member AND kids under a certain age free. I am surprised that they aren't taking the lead here with what exes they pay... Also, what slots have you got.... if you have the filler slots, your bargaining power is less but if you are close to headline, then they WANT you more...

was she hot? I think you just got specc'd for a threesome... ???

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1396965878' post='2419192'] In that case, though, isn't getting A&R there a benefit to the band, which might outweigh getting paid? [/quote] In my case, no.. but then again I never expected the singer/songwriter would be able to retain and afford a band.. so my fee was always a standalone/one-off. At forst you get suckered in and do them for your 'mates'...but you get wise pretty quick. Tough to make your petrol money but that REALLY does teach you the value of getting people to come out. Difficult to say what the margins are but in a pub we do, he sells at £2.50 a pint. I asked him how he could do it and he said he was buying a barrel at £45-60...which could be half what the tied brewery deal will sell at. Another LL sells his Doombar at £3.60 on a music night and a few will 50-60 plus for the most of the evening. The LL says he has 2-30 regulars who will pretty much support most nights so a band only hase to bring in 30 or so and he will have a very good night. There are a few ways a band will do this... plague their mates with FB invites, huge familiy or friends type thing or just being good enough to keep the people who see you, coming back. But.... I still say music nights would be helped if the number of pubs being able to do music was cut...by making the license more worthwhile and not cheap..and therefore that would squeeze out the poorer bands... and poorer venues. The best pubs/venues have a tight get in policy and bands can't speculate their way in...they are invited or endorsed by a local. That is a bit extreme, but works for one or two... Funnily enough one of them was run by a tight Scotsman who ran excellent bills with pretty much the pick of bands..and then only the ones he liked, but he was a real tightwad. Which was a bit rich when he had a special event and the very average buffet grub he put on cost a bomb... hmmmmmmm..!!

I've played them and thought they were good... but they sound 'NEO' to me...in that they have that same sort of 'harsh' mid prominece which I don't really favour..not that kind a sound to my ear. You can get round that easily enough but I would say they are ball-park Berg AE cab like, which many rave over. I far prefer the DB cab bias...but they are heavier. I also prefer the Berg CN112 as I feel they are just a bit more subtle sounding. But the SL and the GS are about as far apart in sound as you could get...IMV The GS is mid scooped...big and fat and the only top you'll get is thru the horn, and the SL has the mid bias ... It can do full, but has no where near the girth of the GS, IME. Some would say that is a good thing as the GS is BIG down low... as you'll know. Chalk and cheese, IMO

well... do those venues that don't tend to pay...do they give bands a choice? If they do, then fair enough, more fool the bands that do that...if they don't because they don't want to..or rather, they get takers ... then in a sense they are being 'forced' to ...because the band feels it has no choice but to play the 'accepted' game... This London circuit that I knew, operated like that. You had to play certain places to even stand a chance of getting A&R there and venues took the advantage.

yes.... but also, the venue would have no credence at all... and people wouldn't go there in the first place so it would be very hard for the venue to establish a going concern. IME. I must admit I find the 'appeal' thing of bands quite a subject in itself.. How much they charge ..?? on what criteria, etc etc .. The end result is down to how many beers they sell... we all know that.. but the whole charging thing is quite arbitary... where you have 3 piece bands doing the bare minimum and asking for £300. They might have lights ..of a fashion.. but the P.A is adequate as vox are an afterthought... so sometimes, I'll agree, what you get paid is about how cheeky you are.

Well, any amp can then drive the passive monitors from those and you can run from mono to a mix. The disadvantage of that is that you have no individual control from the amp so the mixer can..and should be set up to control to do that instead. You have great control if you split the signal thru the aux outs to a stereo amp so you can have more control to the individual cabs.... but you could get pretty close to that effect anyway, running a mono amp signal to the pr on speakers.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1396882583' post='2418335'] A venue is there to make money... To them, your music is a product that brings more people into their venue. If your product is generic (your band plays the same stuff as everyone else at the same standard) then a venue will not pay you as they can get the same effect (more people through the door) by getting a band in that will pay for free. If your music is unique (other bands / musicians cannot offer a comparable product) and a venues clientele only turns out for the music that you are providing then they will have to pay you... and they will as it's in their financial interests to do so. Those complaining about not getting paid, how unique is what you are doing? Could you be replaced by another local band and the audience wouldn't even notice? Getting paid for music is like getting paid for anything else. You have to offer something the competition doesn't. [/quote] As far as I am concerned we don't play venues that don't pay... I am just saying that it doesn't help if others do.. So then, yes, I think the venue has a dodgy operation if they want free bands and they are taking advantage of certain people. They wouldn't dream to ask their bar staff to do it for free...even on those charity gigs..? so I just don't see why their 'model' is acceptable for bands..even inexperienced or poor ones. But they do.... er...why is that? Other things I would do...btw.. is make the music license have proper teeth and instead of diluting it like they have done, make if far harder..read expensive... for pubs to put on music nights, and not have the free for all they have at the moment. £250 a band in a pub is very poor money and the fees have stagnated.for years. but that is another thread.

I have already said it is a job... a few pages back. It doesn't have to be my main income or even that regular but if I play, I ask for payment. It doesn't really matter to me if people don't get paid...UNTIL that little exercise encroaches, as it surely does ( as per some examples I cite above) on the paid gig territory. Look at any regional gig diary this summer... to see how many 'free' festivals there are. Everyone can cite a really pertinent and just cause but you could spend all summer doing free bookings. Looking at the line-ups, I am sure some bands do. Most 'working' bands I know will entertain 3 free gigs for charity but there are so many that it is hard to sort thru the genuine ones. As for us.... we don't do them..or if it was really something we would want to do, we would still pay ourselves minimum fees anyway. Other than that... in an ideal world, I'd like bands to know their value in the real world and charge for it. But some either can't or don't.. oh well.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1396881048' post='2418304'] The simple reply is 'No'. I'm not interested in comparing my earning ability with others, i whatever field, and I don't look over my shoulder to see how I'm dong vis-à-vis others. Most especially if I was an archer; I'd be more interested in hitting the target as best I can. [/quote] we know you are just weird... but in all seriousness, you never charge, I get that. Personally, I'd have to really know an act that didn't charge, to book them as I would be thinking what is wrong with them but accept your stance is likely to be the exception...

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1396879736' post='2418276'] I have a standard 'test' I apply before agreeing to play for nothing. If everyone else involved (i.e. bar staff, PA provider) is getting paid then I expect the same professional courtesy as everyone else involved. [/quote] I know we have laboured the point..or I have... but free gigs don't concern me so much as we just don't get involved in them.... but that is not to say there are no repercussions of sorts. We do a few festivals this year...and they are nice gigs to do, IMO...but they are paid... Now, a pub festival puts charity in the title somewhere... hires in a stage and P.A and the whole line-up does it for free.. That is where the lines tend to be crossed in my opinion...as we even have 'agents' running these bills... Now...is that not just a little bit crass and obvious? I know a few ( agents ) who run marquees and P.A as well...

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1396879706' post='2418275'] I never saw what the issue is with venues not paying bands, if you aren't getting paid, and want to be paid, don't play the gig, its that simple surely?. it's different If you are a career musician, or make your earnings by playing, in which case you wouldn't play a venue that isn't paying anyway would you?. For a lot of us on here, music is a hobby, and the cost of gear/travel etc is part of that in the same way that any other hobby would be. If I took up archery, I'd have to pay for the bow, the arrows, the transport etc, but wouldn't expect to rock up to an event and be paid for it.. why should music be different? or am I missing something completely [/quote] But if you got to such a standard whereby other archers got paid... would you not be wanting to be paid yourself ..?

I wouldn't worry about passive subs and I think there is a lot going for them. The weight as mentioned, is always helpful, and there can be a lot of vibration going through a Class D section over the months with an active Sub. With this is mind, I might welcome passive subs as an option so you can 'park' the power amp some way away from the cab...which is not something you can do with and all-in-1 active sub solution. What you might save on the active costs, you might have to spend on a x-over control.

You could use any old amp as a mono amp to drive the monitors. The mixer option is overkill simply in terms of size, IMO..unless you have gigs that don't have space limits on stage. £200 or so should get you a reasonable stereo amp that would prove more versatile. How many sends/aux do you have to drive the monitor signal...?

Don't know, but I did an audition with the Drummer ...for some reason they decided to pair me with him to get through the bass and drum players for a 'Blues Brothers show. We did about 3 songs. I didn't know their stuff but had heard of them...and he didn't know any RB/BB stuff. 'We' didn't get it

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1396821557' post='2417773'] We're back to the basics of this 'free market economy' again, aren't we..? If a venue thinks they're getting a better deal from a 'free' band than a paid band, they'd be daft to give a way their profits, surely..? Most professionals would be happy with that, I'd have thought. If, however, the paid band bring enough 'added value' to justify the difference, the venue will surely pay them, no..? What's wrong with that..? ...or is there a flaw in 'free market' economics..? [/quote] They may only looking at the money side of it...ie, music for free=is better than music than costs, and considering how much even musicians actually know about music, it isn't surprisng a LL or venue manager just looks at figures. But then we can say the same for punters as well. Sufface to say, that most bands that play for free tend to do so as getting money for the gig is harder than not getting it. I see it as a service... and it can be a very enjoyable service, but that doesn't mean that we give it away. As I said, there is a stigma around here about free gigs.. either the venue isn't taken that seriously or the band isn't...and I am quite happy with that. How can I charge a beer festival a function fee figure and then play a free one...?? what sort of message or what sort of taking the pee is that..? And you'll still get the organiser of the Beer fest say I know what you play pubs for so why should I pay you more...??? Set out your stall and stick with it... it will cost you a few cheap gigs but they are the ones you can and want to loose.. IMO.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1396817295' post='2417710'] This is getting really depressing now. So everything is about money now is it? [/quote] not like you to run out of steam.... but yes, gigs are about money as far as I am concerned. I may well far rather a good gig over an average gig but I want it to be paid.

Bit of a minefield.... we brought a Mackie Thump which was awful and got sold straight away and we didn't rate the QSC K subs much for the money. Went for RCF 905's instead..

Not in that instance as you are helping out someone less fortunate.... but he isn't making money out of your free endeavours.