wateroftyne

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1376410106' post='2173561'] Trust me , in America there is plenty you can do in that situation . It's the most consumer -orientated and litigious society in the World . [/quote] Alternatively, you can post your experience on Talkbass and have it resolved in about 24 hours for free.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1376409386' post='2173540'] Yes , but as I keep saying , that is only the buyers version of events . He would say that , wouldn't he ? [/quote] Backed up by photos and a timescale that suggests he'd hit a brick wall. When you get to that point, what else can you do?

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1376403661' post='2173423'] Why so ? One interpretation of events could be that all Jimmy was doing was fascilitating someone getting their dream bass . [u]If [/u]the buyer had had his eyes open about the real state of the bass and still proceeded , that is . Jimmy says the buyer did know what condition the bass was in , the buyer says he didn't . The truth probably lies somewhere between those two points of view . [/quote] There is one factor here that should remove any element of doubt about the quality of the finished goods: $5000.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1376402170' post='2173371'] Well , that description is open to interpretation , that is my point . The maxim of "let the buyer beware " comes to mind . I am not saying that this is a bass in good repair , but a lot depends on how Jimmy represented the bass to the customer and what was understood by his description . If someone contacts you and says " I want that spalted alder bass really badly , can you help me with that ? ", as apparently happened in this case , then you are entitled as a vendor to try and extract a premium price for your goods . All these comments about "how can you charge $5000 for that piece of junk "are wide of the mark . The same folks should be asking " how can you [u][i]pay[/i] [/u]$5000 for that piece of junk ? " . No one put a gun to the fellas head and forced him to contact Jimmy Coppollo about buying that bass . Jimmy had an enthusuiastic buyer for a one-off bass and had a right to try and get a good price considering those circumstances . The discrepancy comes in what is meant by play wear and dings . With hindsight , the buyer should have asked for detailed photos , but hindsight is always 20/20 , as we all know . Maybe Jimmy understated the wear to the bass , and , again , with the balance of hindsight would descibe it differently . The fact that he has offered a full refund probably reflects that . [/quote] As far as I'm aware, the 'couple of gigs' worth of wear' comment was a direct quote from JC. You couldn't do that amount of wear in a few gigs unless - as one wag commented on TB - you are a gorilla wearing a suit made of sandpaper.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1376396480' post='2173261'] Instead , what we have here is a difference in the interpretation of events and what the agreed contract was between the two parties . It is quite conceivable ( indeed , it looks most likely ) that , whatever the apparent condition of the bass , that Jimmy Coppollo was genuinely and sincerely under the impression that the customer was happy and indeed even eager , to pay $5000 for this rare and special bass even in its' current state . That difference in estimation between the buyer and seller of the value of the builder's work is not in itself a crime or act of dishonesty . [/quote] Does this look like it could be a $5000 bass with "[i]scratches or dings that more than likely will happen on the first few gigs[/i]"..?

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1376391914' post='2173143'] His rebuttal on TB in the face of a lynch-mob is pretty strongly worded and may not be the most PR-friendly way to respond but I can imagine how he felt on discovering that there was a tirade of abuse being fired at him in such a public way and from a bunch of people who'd obviously decided to hang him out to dry. [/quote] Barrie - I appreciate you know the guy personally and on a business level, which gives you a far better perspective then pretty much everyone in this discussion (and across on TB). I'm sure he's a lovely guy with a real passion for what he does. But surely you can acknowledge that the outcry from the community has been pretty understandable, given that one of their own has been sold a $5000 lemon, and then had the shutters pulled down on any resolution? Do you think the OP should have just 'sucked it up', to use a phrase from across the pond, which is what would have happened if 'the lynch mob' hadn't got involved? Jimmy had a chance to put things right, and he didn't. Now he has to deal with the fall-out. (Of course none of this includes threats, personal stuff and bad words, none of which are acceptable IMO)

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1376389307' post='2173076'] The problem is, you often have three-four types of customer service. A. Unbelievably helpful service, followed by after service, which means you go back time and time again. B. You then have the more 'arrogant' aggressive service, which basically means the buyer has little control or say, and some will walk away quite easily, purely because they know they'd have a fight on their hands if an issue arose. C. You then have the more everyday service, who tend to follow the rules and expectations, but won't go beyond anything else. D. Poor service, poor communication, leading to lost sales. There aren't many places who deal with people as per A. [/quote] If you're the Ferrari of the bass world, the only type in this list should be A That's part of the reason people are willing to pay £3300 for one of your instruments.

[quote name='Lew-Bass' timestamp='1376353754' post='2172819'] Jimmy's reply: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/my-horrible-alleva-coppolo-experience-1006426/index36.html#post14719935 [/quote] It's not great, is it? Photoshop? Let's not forget that the only reason this made it to the pages of TB is because the OP hit a brick wall. Ask yourself: If you were £3300 in the hole, and the same happened to you, what would you do?

And as for the Accuswitch...

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1376311458' post='2171929'] Completely agree. I will not get involved in the car crash of a thread over there, or state what I personally think of the bass/AC etc, but something ISN'T right here. I cannot believe this has happened. It makes me wonder if its been in storage or something else has happened. No one knows exactly has happened. We have had similar threads on here, (yes, I know obviously) but with nowhere near that kind of response and not as serious as these issues. I think we should probably be careful what we say. I do not think we should draw any particular attention or attack either party as we basically have 'no dog in this fight'. [/quote]. Of course. Forming an opinion based on one side of the story is never a good idea ;-) Here's hoping Jimmy can pull a rabbit out the hat that explains this away.

Arrr man - what a shame. Great pickups for silly money. All the best to him.

[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1376307076' post='2171863'] That thread shows the good and bad of Talkbass. +. Identifying a shoddy workmanship and poor customer relations and making other people aware of it. - Completely over the top responses along the lines 'this is the worst thing I have ever seen'. [/quote] To be fair, it's the worst $5000 bass I've ever seen.

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/my-horrible-alleva-coppolo-experience-1006426/"]Interesting thread[/url] over on Talkbass. Assuming everything is as it appears to be... oh dear.

No. Buy OBBM, or make your own with high-quality components.

Ah, so I see. To be fair he doesn't say it's 'vintage' or American. Just as well, 'cos it's neither.

Just had another look. It looks like MIM, maybe? But then, it's an R serial number. Which I think means it's MIJ. Flip knows what it is.

I'm not sure that's a old Fender. It's not American, for a start.

Wow.. that's great. Bass like it used to be. Ta for posting it.

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1376055242' post='2169100'] A good rule of thumb is to go to a well attended bass bash and check out how many players are better than you are. I'd been playing a while when I went to my first one and I expected to about upper 'fourth division' to use old football system parlance but once I'd been hanging around a while and listening I quickly regraded myself to Sunday morning dog and duck league standard. [/quote] As I suggested earlier, there's more to it than being an eyeball-melting slapper. :-)

Your ability to do the job is governed by much more than your technical knowledge. Experience, instinct, feel, your personality, personal circumstances, availability, reputation.. All arguably just as important. If not, more so.

Nice article. You've also raised the point that most people (and Amanda Palmer) seem to forget - if you don't have an established fan base, it's not practical.

[quote name='mart' timestamp='1375883212' post='2166884'] And no, it's not Genesis do country. Sorry, I've had to explain this to a few people over the years, but it's really quite simple. Look, country is bad. Anything that is listenable, or even good, therefore, is not country. Some people don't seem to get this. When I explain that some Johnny Cash stuff is good, and therefore, those songs are not country, they look at me like I'm a little bit deranged. I don't understand it myself, as it seems so simple. So anyway, M&V, BoB, TA, etc are all pretty good, and therefore not country. Ok! ;-) :-) [/quote] OK - Genesis do American roots music :-)

[quote name='mart' timestamp='1375882413' post='2166864'] As for why the band don't like the song ... I don't really know. I can see the lyrics being thought of as a little too simple, although it's the sort of growing-up story that can be simple and yet profound. And, frankly, it's far from the worst lyric Genesis have recorded (they have done an awful lot of utter stinkers in their time), and the music is really pretty good. Maybe again it had too much of the old Genesis sound, at a time when they were determined to move away from it? It does sound like it could have fitted on Duke, but very definitely not Abacab. [/quote] The band have said that it's their attempt at a Band (sic) song - you can easily imagine Levon Helm singing it. It's kind-of up there in the 'Genesis Do Country' pile along with Ballad of Big, That's All, Driving the Last Spike.. Phil has a thing for the Old West.

Oof.. just listened to Me & Virgil for the first time in ages. What a great song. The drumming is fab, and Rutherford's nod to Roger McGuinn in the instrumental break is mint. I never understood why the band hated it so much...? Edit - Here it is for those that haven't heard it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taXXvJkU9U0

Ah, I've got a massive soft spot for Fading Lights. A whole song that just the three of them could play live, and the lyrics are so poignant. Lovely.