risingson

Our band have got seriously bored of doing the same covers over and over so we decided to throw some Motown into the set (or more Motown than is already in the set at least). Landed on 'For Once In My Life' by Stevie, 'Reach Out' by the Four Tops and 'What Becomes of the Broken Hearted'. It got me thinking of the unhinged capabilities of Jamerson again, the guy wasn't just a great player, him and the rest of the Funk Brothers literally reinvented the sound of popular music forever. Absolutely my bass favourite player! Anyone else out there with serious Jamerson love?

Not a mad Marcus Miller fan apart from on most (not all) his session work. Undoubtedly a very influential player though, and a great one at that.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='898572' date='Jul 19 2010, 07:23 AM']Conan The Thread Destroyer strikes again. PS. Not you, BTW [/quote] I figured! There's always got to be one wind up merchant on a forum, just glad I know who it is now. It's a shame because the premise of this thread was really quite enjoyable otherwise.

Don't know why I even rose to argue over this, one persons view in particular on the whole subject is so misinformed. I'm happy to just resolve that a sensible discussion on the whole session player topic is impossible. Back to the original point, I'm happy sitting on a groove or a tune and not overplaying. That's where I'm happy.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='898182' date='Jul 18 2010, 04:58 PM']The premise of the thread is too basic though, that's how we end up in these scenarios where we're talking about players in simple terms and the generalisations don't fit. Look at a player like Flea and you might judge him on his playing on RHCP's most recent record which is very bland, or you might judge him on that Hotlicks video he did in the early '90s which is just dire and makes him look like a simplistic slapper, unimaginative and ignorant. But then listen to BSSM again and, well, he's pretty good on that isn't he. And he's played with other people and he's played trumpet with other people, so is he still a one trick pony? Similarly, Marcus Miller seems to always play fusion or R&B and I'm judging him based on Luther Vandross singles from the '80s. From my angle he doesn't look that versatile, he's dipped into a couple of quite similar-sounding genres and played slap on everything, so how's he different from Flea? It's all bollocks really isn't it. That's what I think. Someone might make a living as a studio musician and because of that they're considered more "versatile" than a guy who had some success in a pop band, but put them both in a situation where they have to cop half a dozen different styles and chances are they'll both sound uncomfortable and out of their depth unless it's music they enjoy and listen to. Actually put either Marcus Miller or Flea in my band and they would each sound bloody ridiculous I guarantee it.[/quote] But you're assuming too much. Who knows whehers Marcus or Flea would sound ridiculous in your band? This is where we differ. I have no preconceptions of any music, I don't listen to music with a view to hating it immediately, same with bass players. I think similar views can only narrow your musical horizon. Nothing is as black or white as you make out.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='898158' date='Jul 18 2010, 04:20 PM']These days, mostly unsigned bands. They tend to have a bit more honesty and charm about them. And ultimately that's always what hooks me with bands; the feeling that they're being straight up with you and you're hearing the best music they can make at the moment, either played with vim or recorded as well as they can afford. I don't listen to slick pop, fusion, prog, metal, I've never seen a band in a stadium, I've never got an autograph, I suppose I don't have the same sense of occasion that some people have. So when I see big names I think I just judge them on what they sound like to be honest.[/quote] Honestly we are on the same page on certain aspects. I abhor the term fusion, do not listen to metal etc. and don't actually care about the level of musicianship involved in all things. The Rolling Stones for example, hardly 'proficient' musicians yet wrote 'Gimme Shelter', on of my all time favs, as well as countless other amazing tunes. The same you could argue with Bowie, The Velvet Underground, never technical masters of their instruments but amazing songwriters. Skill isn't synonymous with musicianship, I completely subscribe to that. Only had difficulty with you thinking session players are soulless... it works both ways, musicians shouldn't be disregarded because of their choice of career either.

I'm a Jazz player mostly but the one in my avatar serves me very well!

[quote name='Hoffmann' post='897869' date='Jul 18 2010, 11:03 AM']wait! The album version was not played by Zender?? and who's mister X??[/quote] Mr. X was the player on the album version of 'Space Cowboy', his identity was never revealed. Stuart wasn't around on the day they recorded but was apparently promised by Jay Kay that once he was back that he could overdub, but when he did come back Jay Kay had had someone else come in and put the bass line down. By the sounds of things that pissed Zender of something bad. Stuart did play on the single version though.

Don't get me wrong, I do not listen to music for the bass lines, in fact I pay little attention to that sort of stuff anymore. My favourite artists are off the Warp label or BPitch (I'm a big electronica and house fan) and therefore have no bass in them whatsoever apart from samples. But the idea that session players are soulless is such misinformation. James Jamerson, the definitive bassist was a session guy who poured his heart and soul into making some of the most widely enjoyed popular music of all time. [quote]I have heard of those players but beyond their most famous output I can't listen to them because I don't know what records they're on. If they've made a living doing this then presumably they're on hundreds of records? Most of them bad records?[/quote] Out of interest what DO you like listening to? Purely out of curiosity. It seems daft to make conclusions on players based on assumptions.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='897752' date='Jul 18 2010, 02:55 AM']Honestly when I read your post where it said "I always wanted to model myself on my favourite session players" it made me wonder why you started to play bass in the first place. For me it was a happy accident, but within a short while I'd latched on to players like Norwood Fisher, and people from my past like Bruce Foxton or Bedders or Bruce Thomas. I can't imagine ever thinking "I wish I was more like a characterless session musician". Might sound harsh but really that's how I feel. I just find it weird that anyone ever felt driven to take up a musical instrument because they heard an unnamed contributor to an artist's record do his thing quietly in the background. Didn't you have a f***ing rock star to look up to?[/quote] Well seeing as how you've presumed thats how I ended up taking up bass, the actual reason I did was by pure chance... I got asked to join a band, they needed a bass player so I got a bass for christmas when I was 12. I listened to Flea like a madman to begin with, but it was only doing so much for me, I wanted to further myself. Unconsciously all those Motown hits my dad used to listen to had a massive impact on me, so I wanted to play more stuff like that. The musicians behind all of that by your logic, characterless? Don't know how you've concluded that session musicians are like this. Maybe you've been listening to the wrong music, but my guess is that's just an uneducated assumption. I don't mean to have a go of course, but it's completely backwards to think like people like James Jamerson, Anthony Jackson, or Tony Levin for sheer example are characterless. If you haven't heard of those guys then please do listen to them and try arguing your point again. I can respect a view saying it's not what you'd prefer to listen to, but to deny these people any credit by pawning their music off as characterless is to stifle your own creativity, I honestly believe this to be true.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='896891' date='Jul 16 2010, 09:25 PM']I think you can usually tell when a musician doesn't really like the music they're playing. If you're playing music that you wouldn't actually listen to in your own time, it's obvious. Over the years I have played in bands that span many different genres but in each case it's been music that I like a lot. I couldn't do a Top 40 band or a country band or a rock band because my heart wouldn't be in it. So for me it's not a case of "stylistic or versatile", it's more a case of soul or no soul.[/quote] I kind of disagree. If you are happy with music as a hobby then I would agree with that last sentiment, but if you want to make money playing music then eventually you'll find yourself in a position where you have to do something you don't enjoy. That's when you find out who's a good player and who's a bad one... the bad player will be the one with the sorry expression on his face not getting involved like they should and the good one will apply their skills in the best way possible and get stuck in, even if they don't like it. It doesn't mean they're soulless musicians. Every job in life, even the ones you enjoy, requires a degree of sacrifice, nothing is as cut and dry as it seems.

I always wanted to model myself on my favourite session players like Pino Palladino or Nathan East, who have a wide variety of sounds and can be relied on to do a good job in most, if not any situation. Nowadays there is no scope for session work unless you are a killer reader and player, in which case you push yourself to the BBC or in the West End in this country, still a massively difficult thing to do. I want to do whatever makes me money playing in the future, I'm not stupid enough anymore to believe I could work like session musicians of previous generations. It's a wholly different environment, and if that means me sitting back and not overplaying in any given capacity, I'm happy with that. In the future I want a degree of control in what I do, but you've gotta fake it to make it before you can have that luxury. Until then I'll give people what they want to hear before pushing the boat out.

I don't really like DR's very much at all, though they get championed as 'the' bass strings to use. Each to their own. I get the best out of D'Addarios and La Bella flats.

Oh yeh, one thing I have learnt from touring is how lonely you can get which is ironic considering how many people you're usually surrounded with. You need to have something to occupy your time doing when you're not playing, whether it be writing, exercising (that's a really good thing to be doing), practicing, etc. otherwise time becomes a long, drawn out affair. The biggest mistake is drinking, which becomes so easy to do when you have free time. It depresses you and sets you up badly for the whole tour. It's much better when you tour with people that you wholeheartedly trust as well. Arguing amongst each other is commonplace but usually a few deep breaths and you'll realise what you were arguing about was pointless anyway. Good luck with your decision

I'm a similar age to you also (I'm 21). I was in the same position to you a few months ago, I had a place in Uni to do history and was torn between packing it all in and selling my gear, or carrying on playing. I decided to carry on, because I knew I wouldn't have been happy not carrying on playing music, a.) because it's what I'm good at, and b.) because you literally only get one shot at our age to do what we want to do. 20/21 means you've got your whole career ahead of you. As it stands we've got a lot of work to get where we want to be but we've got enough contacts to play just about anywhere in Europe and Scandinavia. Keep your gear, pretend it's unsellable. You don't want to find out a few months down the line you've made the wrong choice and have to sort out your entire rig again. If you decide to carry on then make sure everything is on your terms, and don't stress about it. You've got a long time to decide what you want to do yet. Being a working musician playing your own stuff means taking a big gamble but if it's what you want to do then it's definitely one worth taking.

Being once a huge fan of Zender I feel a bit bad saying it, but I prefer Mr. X's 5 string approach on the album version. A number of Jamiroquai's entourage have categorically denied Randy Hope Taylor's involvement in the album version, although IMO it sounds like him. It seems to be a major source of the qualms between Jay Kay and Stuart though. Worth noting that when Jay Kay was last asked about it, he said he honestly couldn't remember the chaps name, but he was a producer, and apparently a bit full of it!

A good preamp and compression and a lot of basses will sound good slapped. I've seen this guys stuff before, he's really great, but I do not think it's an accurate measure of what a Rickenbacker sounds like, especially not amplified by the usual means.

F-Bass right now probably or a really great mid/late 70's Jazz. The F-Bass was the only boutique style bass I've ever played that made me want anything above say two grand. Played MTD's, Sadowsky's, Pensas, etc. but none of them do it for me apart from the F-Basses. Having said that... would probably take an Alleva too!

[quote name='Rich' post='894741' date='Jul 14 2010, 02:29 PM']errrm... yuck[/quote] A giant +1. Graphic EQ's on a bass amp, not my thing either.

It's one hell of an album. Even if you don't like the music, the production in it is so professional and clean. Supposedly a lot of producers still use it to reference the quality of their monitor systems in the studio... not to mention the caliber of musicians on the album... reads like a who's who of 70's and 80's session musicians.

[quote name='Spoombung' post='893151' date='Jul 12 2010, 08:36 PM']For [url="http://soundcloud.com/spoombung/set-in-silver"]straightforward tunes and songs[/url] - step input on Logic/Mac - then I learn the stuff on bass and guitar. For [url="http://tinpanalley.biz/spoombung/The%20Stinking%20Rose/09-A%20Broken%20tooth.mp3"]elongated riffs and hybrid styles[/url] - bass For [url="http://tinpanalley.biz/spoombung/I%20Saw%20Spoombung%27s%20Daughter%20Consumed%20by%20Kirby%20Dots/05-I%20Had%20Some%20Shoulders.mp3"]electronica[/url] - Reaktor. For free-improvisation - [url="http://tinpanalley.biz/spoombung/I%20Saw%20Spoombung%27s%20Daughter%20Consumed%20by%20Kirby%20Dots/06-Jumping%20Juniper.mp3"]broken guitars, springs, clips and bass[/url][/quote] Reaktor... what a painfully complicated piece of software! Brilliant in it's uses though.

This is a very interesting topic! I write primarily on guitar, and often on keys as well. Bass is my preferred instrument but it doesn't have the harmonic chordal capability that other instruments do, therefore it's hard to write songs with.

Off Erykah Badu's new album. Sick groove. Herbie Hancock with Freddie Washington on bass for this one.

Me playing in Sweden about year or so ago! [attachment=53890:6531_101...500989_n.jpg] [attachment=53891:9428_176...906234_n.jpg]

I won't base my opinion on the video, I'd like to hear the actual record first. Love Jamiroquai, Zender was one of the reasons I got into bass but having met Paul Turner (albeit briefly), I'm completely enamoured with his playing... what a sick bassist! Looking forward to hearing the new album.