TimR

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1333702784' post='1605379'] ....sometimes it is hard to convince them to spend 20 mins each day grooving to a click. .. I have to supply a hats chick or something when the drums are not playing, just to keep it together. ...usually subtle tempo shifts help a song to breathe. So the answer is, in most of my bands, yes. [/quote] I wonder how many bass players and other musicians practice to a click. I've not for a while. In fact I've probably not picked up my bass outside of rehearsals for a while now You HAVE to provide a hihat? Is this because you are asked or because the musician goes wildly out or just because you feel you need to. There's a cover of a well known LedZep tune that features hats over the intro which completely destroys the feel that the original LedZep tune had. I'll try to dig them up. I've asked my drummer not to do this over my bass intros, or count me in as it feels like I'm at school. He agreed with no discussion saying hd didn't know why he did it as I didn't need it. (which made me feel all warm and cuddly ) Letting the song breathe is an altogether different discussion and it's different to getting faster and faster until the singer suffocates and falls off the front of the stage.

[quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1333662964' post='1605168'] I'm a drummer-bassist. Trust me there's lots of "musicians" that should never play with a drummer. They have absolutely no concept of maintaining a tempo. So as a drummer I have a dilemma, should I stick with the tempo and clash with the lead or go with the flow? I nearly always "go with the flow" because the alternative is too depressing. If you think this is an unbelievable (spelling) question then I suggest you have a look at your own timing. Most bassist are surprising poor at keeping tempo in my experience. Davo [/quote] That's an interesting comment regards going with the flow. Maybe that's the real issue some of us are seeing regards speeding up. On a number of occasions during rehearsals our lead guitarist will come in a beat early/late on a solo. I'll always try to stop the song and rehearse the section but the drummer will often just skip/add the beat so he is back in time with the guitarist which causes the rest of us to do the same. Usually The drummer and I change at the same time, I think we work well together, but the rhythm guitarist is another matter. Depressing? If it's a regular issue, and you're planning on playing music for people to dance to, it needs to be addressed.

[quote name='KK Jale' timestamp='1333543715' post='1603235'] ... Me. Oh, okay. Weak, I am. Weak. [/quote] You should be careful here. I used to play Gold by Spandau Ballet. There was a section that I could never get right when I played with the band but was fine when I played with the original. I recorded our band playing it and found that in the original the whole band held a note while the singer sings triplets. In our band EVERYONE was trying to fill in the space with some random fill. The singer was struggling to garble the words. At the next practice I told everyone what I had found. Me: no one should play anything, everyone just hold the note then the singer can fit the words in. Singer: I've never had a problem there! Drummer: I'm going to still play a fill or it will feel empty. Me: let's just try it first. We play it. It sounds great. Band agree it sounds great. Singer: I wondered why I always struggle in that part. Doh! Moral: always record yourselves and compare to the original before laying blame.

I try to make at least one schoolboy error every gig. It's what makes playing covers interesting. At the last gig the drummer announces that we have to lengthen one of the sets from 45mins to an hour and that we would be playing three extra tunes at the start of the set. So I amend the set. We come on and hit the first note. Hmm that doesn't sound right. I'm so thrown that w're past the intro and two lines into the verse before I realise that the tune I'm trying to play isn't what the rest of the band are playing. At the break I ask the drummer why we didn't play the extra 3 tunes like we planned. His reply - "We are. It's the second set that was too short" For the first time ever we had planned an hour first set and a 45min second set. Has anyone else ever planned a shorter second set?

What make, model and impedance is your cab? What amp are you driving it with? I would go with another 15 same make and model assuming your current amp can drive the pair.

It's not cut and dried. Every situation is different. I played with a drummer for too long who wanted to play everything too fast. As a bass player it is very easy to hold the tempo back or push it forward but it gets very tiring doing it song after song, gig after gig. We used to have a nightmare getting the feel of Crazy Little Thing Called Love. There are things going on in that tune that are not immediately obvious. Mainly the drums really push and drive but the vocals are really laid back. If the drummer plays with a laid back swing feel you can't do anthing about it. Essentially in tunes where the bass and drums are on the beat together it's a partnership and bass can control the time effectively. In tunes where the bass is laid back, the drums have to keep time and push ahead. In tunes where the bass is pushing it is the bass keeping time and the drums sit back on the bass. Most drummers only understand playing on the beat like a metronome. If you find one who can play with feel and can push without speeding up then keep hold of them.

Me: Dave, you sure you want to set up there? I have to put the lights there later and you're going to get hot, blinded and they'll be in your way. Dave: no I'll be fine here mate. After souncheck... Dave: can we move the lights, they're right in my way, I can't see anything and they're bl**dy hot.

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1332949731' post='1595388'] Yes, I mean, the band has only been gigging for 18 years after all, so I guess they need time to get the hang of it [/quote] Indeed. I learned a lot in my first band. The main thing was not to let things fester and to be up front and honest without being overbearing. Me: I think we need to ensure that nothing goes onto the stage during load in. Until drums and PA and backline are in place. No cases, bags, cloths, instruments, music etc. Drummer: definitely, I've been meaning to say something for ages. It's a nightmare setting up the drums with everyones gear everywhere. Next gig; Me: I thought we agreed no cases etc on the stage! Drummer: oh that was for everyone else. I need to unpack my drums on the stage.

[quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1332942024' post='1595205'] It's not something people actually say, but I hate it when we are carrying all the gear in from the van and people put it all ON the stage. I mean, don't you realise we then have to move it all again to prior to setting up. No brains. [/quote] That is the most frustrating thing EVER. I played with a sax player like that. All her stage clothes, handbag, instrument always right where I was about to drop my bass cab. One day I swear I was just going to put my cab down on all her stuff. Eventually I got the whole band together and said nothing goes onto the stage except backline amps, drums and PA cabs until the PA is set up. Trying to run mains cables across the stage without knocking over drinks, music and instruments on stands. I just thought it should be obvious but a lot of people seem to need it explaining to them.

I arrived at my first gig with the band to find they had set up everything on the stage. PA mixer, PA amp, monitor amp, PA speakers, guitar rack for 7 guitars with 4 guitars in it. Leaving no room for us to move. Me: we need to move all this stuff off the stage into the wings, people have come to see us play and we've got no room to move about. Guitarist1: But then no one will be able to see how much gear we have.

I wouldn't limit yourself to one. There are several very simple standards everyone does. Floor filling ones include I Saw Her Standing There, Get Back and Twist and Shout.

Smooth Operator. Fairly simple up to the bass solo which is also fairly simple apart it's just difficult getting into it.

+1,000,000

Cool. Things are looking up. I was just hoping your job situation wasn't impacting on the band and you wern't imagining stress from the other members.

Well. You're not much older than them so don't worry about that. You're the bass player. If you were not good enough or had the wrong attitude they would ask you to leave. Sounds like you are depressed. Probably due to your work situation. Giving up would be a bad idea. What do you do for a living? Why are you tired? If it is a non manual job and you just come home and play computer games (until early hours of morning?) you need to get out and do some serious exercise.

Happens all the time and pubs are used to it. They know you're doing their pub for advertising to get the big gigs. As has been said talk to the landlord ask if you can swap weeks with another band. After all he's getting a quality wedding band that would go out for several hundred quid for a couple of hundred. Obviously this only works on pub gigs and had you taken a 30th birthday party, for example, then been asked to do a wedding you would have to work on first come first served basis. So in that respect your mercenary friend is wrong.

Awesome. That guy can play tightly.

Whenever I feel like that I go out and watch a band. I usually come back with the feeling that I'm not doing too badly.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1331225515' post='1569843'] ... I'm talking about pro backline players of function, theatre, big name tours here, rather than pro musician doing a pub gig or famous singers on the vodka. ... [/quote] I do wonder whether people here ever read the whole question before replying. Obviously certain famous names have been known to abuse substances and a pub gig has s different atmosphere completely. It just seems a bit strange to me that someone gigging night after night should treat a gig like a special night out. I only drink now if I'm going out to celebrate something. Yesterday it featured heavily in the news that middle aged people are drinking almost every night. The incidence of obesity is growing and no one seems to know why.... Hmmm.

Buy a riviter and consider buying a few old busted ones and salvaging the parts. I made a decent one for my amp by buying a long 2U case that had smashed and cutting the back off, drilled out the rivets, chiselled the ply down to fit the extrusion (the slots are thinner than the ply), drill and rivet back together. I did try making a case from some right angle ally but it took days and fell apart pretty quickly. You need the right extrusions and catches.

I played with a drummer who remained completely sober on any gig that he had arranged and got completely rat-faced on any gig that anyone else had arranged.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1331282943' post='1570627'] The OP asked about professionals specifically. Maybe the thoughts of amateurs/semi-pros should ber another thread? [/quote] Indeed. Amateurs and semi-pros are in another league entirely. Lose the gig and no worries. If you're a pro and you lose the gig, word gets round and you're out of a job entirely. I would imagine, but I'm not a pro so that's why I'm asking. The problem with the "I know how much I can drink without it affecting my performance" attitude is that it is complete rubbish. The last person who should decide whether they've had too much is the person who's had too much. Although having said that I did a gig fro a 30th birthday where we got paid very well. We turned up, all of us acting very proffesional, and sat and waited in the bar until it was time to play. Unfortunately I had a couple of pints, normally no problem, but on an empty stomach, a late night before etc. When we went on I looked at my music and realised I was completely p****d. Not slightly relaxed like I would usually be! Turns out the lager had been 5%. I played reasonably but it was very un-nerving.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1331234857' post='1570115'] The classical boys (mostly) drink like the fishiest of fish and that doesn't stop them knocking out three hours of International-standard dot action. Stockhausen on half a litre of vodka is entirely commonplace. Popular musicians are clearly pussies of the first order. I am disapoint. [/quote] It certainly seems that way judging by the Facebook posts of a friend of mine. Although to be fair some of that music must be pretty tedius following the same dots night after night.

[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1331224254' post='1569814'] ... Start a new thread Tim ... [/quote] Think it's been done before, but .....

On another thread a story was told where a pro drummer had been speeding up and drinking on a gig. The Sax player stopped mid gig and told the drummer off for speeding up. The drummer then said I do this for a living threw his toys out of the pram and packed up, leaving the rest of the band to finish the gig. I'm talking about pro backline players of function, theatre, big name tours here, rather than pro musician doing a pub gig or famous singers on the vodka. In my profession you would get the sack instantly if you hadn't electrocuted yourself first. Drivers - obviously the same. But I know of certain jobs where people would go to the pub Friday lunch and be useless Friday afternoon. Thoughts?