xilddx

Er, yes, WOW! Luck, lucky boy!

Depends on a few things like finish and condition, but I would pitch it at about that too.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='753845' date='Feb 22 2010, 02:15 PM']I apologise in advance for the length of this post. The value is in inverse proportion to the volume. The widespread, though not universal, belief in the inherent superiority of vintage guitars encompasses a number of separate though complementary assertions. Broadly, these are that they play, sound and look better than their modern counterparts. The descriptor of 'cool' is often applied to them. The important point is that these are qualities which are judged subjectively by the individual and can be neither proved or disproved. The only truth upon which we all might agree is that vintage instruments are, by some measure, older than contemporary instruments. Yet the term 'vintage' is less descriptive of an instrument's age than an assertion that the instrument possesses certain desirable qualities absent from other instruments. These qualities are derived not only from the manufacturer who produced it but, through some osmotic process, the culture which pertained at the time of production. Who among us has not sniffed an old guitar and not instantly visualised some fuzzy yet emblematic image of a bygone period? Many in modern society believe themselves to be faced with a contracting horizon and a flattening of distinctive local or national culture. Many see modern life as lacking a quality which may be embodied in certain historic practices or artefacts. These might include antiques, allotment gardening, classic cars, collectables, old musical genres. When people contrast these examples of 'the old ways' with modern life, they often attribute an 'authenticity' or truthfulness to them which stands in stark contrast to 'value-free' contemporary artefacts and culture. This belief is, of course, nothing new. In the UK, shape was first given to the concept by Victorians such as William Morris and Cecil Sharp, who attributed an 'authenticity' to furniture, tools and folk song which they believed to be wholly absent from the age of 'The Machine'. Heidegger pronounced upon authenticity. Existentialism is all about authenticity in a personal sense. Japanese culture venerates authenticity. And, of course, where there is desire there is money to be made. The heritage industry (National Trust, English Heritage, Wm Shakespeare Walking Tours of Stratford Upon Avon), Antiques fairs, retro clothing manufacturers, forgers, Fender Roadworn instruments; the examples are countless and ubiquitous. 'Authentic' sells. The qualities attributed to vintage instruments may have a basis in fact. But the belief is supported by a far wider ranging desire for authenticity. In this respect, vintage basses are simply a tiny corner of a broader social phenomenon. To me, the most interesting aspect is the inconsistency of application. As Bloodaxe rightly noted: If it's a Fender, it's 'mojo'. If it's any other manufacturer, it's just damage.[/quote] Interesting and thought provoking as usual. I am wondering now if it is purely tradition, the Fender bass being our traditional instrument, the exclusivity, which EBS Freak mentions, of owning an old one being closer to the inception of that tradition and, being rare, attaching great value to such.

[quote name='4000' post='753842' date='Feb 22 2010, 02:11 PM']Maybe any tongue-in-cheekness doesn't come across (to me at least) in writing, if there is some there. Either way I tend not to be someone who sees the point in wording things provocatively simply because I have no wish to be knowingly provocative. To me it's pointless. If it's not to you, then we simply have a difference in how we like to approach things. To me it's a trait based in negativity; maybe you feel otherwise. Maybe part of the problem is that every day I come into contact with people who think there is something wrong with "person x" and they actually mean it, which is why I don't like to see it in places I come for relaxation and positivity. That's maybe a personal issue. I used the term live and let live as a reference to respecting the rights of others to differ from yourself, but you know that. The implication of your Mugabe comment was directly related to my opinions on the topic under discussion. FWIW, many people seem to think that if you respect a person's right to have a different opinion to your own then you effectively don't have an opinion of your own and are therefore sitting on the fence. This isn't the case. Saying "I don't like bass (a) but others might, it's just my opinion" isn't sitting on the fence. You've expressed an opinion, but have qualified it. Its not negative or aggressive. To say "bass (a) is crap and people who like it are wrong "is both negative and aggressive. The line about the neuralgia (although true and actually not helping my mood) was a joke. Geddit? See, it works both ways. And of course I'm aware many of us have something wrong with us, I used to work in the NHS. Sorry to hear about your issues BTW. I do have a monster penis though. Its in a jar in the shed. [/quote] But this is a forum, we should be learning from eachother's experiences, insight, and knowledge. Sometimes one has to provoke discussion. If I have an opinion, it does not mean it can't be changed. But to post "Mmm, that Gus G3 looks a bit strange, and it is rather expensive, would you buy one, Dear? I don't think I would either. More tea?" isn't really going to be much of a thread is it? There's been some good discussion going on with some excellent points being made in interesting ways, even the way it has this sub-thread going on is interesting. Cheers, N

[quote name='josh3184' post='753856' date='Feb 22 2010, 02:20 PM']supply/demand. End of really [/quote] What we are interested in, and what we are discussing, is what creates the demand.

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='753829' date='Feb 22 2010, 02:06 PM']I was trying for irony.... and obviously failing miserably [/quote] I failed to see any irony too! Cheers.

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='753795' date='Feb 22 2010, 01:36 PM']Antiques [b]Greed [/b]Show on a Sunday night?[/quote]

[quote name='Low End Bee' post='753539' date='Feb 22 2010, 10:08 AM']Very enjoyable. Nice relaxed venue. Nice to see 4 BC'ers lined up at a table in the first row. I thought you were going to hold up scorecards after each song. [/quote]

[quote name='Stan_da_man' post='753696' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:33 PM']Vintage Fenders do nothing for me. I'm going to make a bold statement and say that modern Fenders can do everything a vintage Fender can.[/quote] And do it better.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='753691' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:28 PM']Question away, but I can't explain. Oh, by the way, the three vintage Fenders I have will probably be worth a ridiculous $hitload by the time I throw the towel in. Crass, I know... but my daughter will thank me in years to come.[/quote] Not crass at all. A very worthy explaination of bass purchases to the wife

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='753658' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:08 PM']Nah.. just no point in disagreeing. If you like tuna sandwiches, why don't we argue about wether they're nice or not instead?[/quote] But that's the point, I am not arguing. I am questioning. What is "nice"? There are all sorts of reasons why you might like or dislike a tuna sandwich. Everything from the quality of the bread, salted or unsalted butter, home made mayo, sweetcorn or not to sweetcorn. Then you have things like mouth-feel, moisture content, presence of umami stimulators, the sustainability and species of the tuna, etc. So I'm not arguing, I'm interested in the psychosocial motivation and behaviour of people buying and selling vintage Fenders. Well I am today anyway.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='753622' date='Feb 22 2010, 11:37 AM']Cool... Thanks for sharing![/quote] Not sure if you are having a little dig at me for some reason. If you are, please stop it, it tickles

[quote name='OldGit' post='753625' date='Feb 22 2010, 11:43 AM']Felling it's better is a large part of the appeal. As with many thing we like to join in with a prevailing belief (well lots do) so if the general belief is that a mojo'd 62 P bass in Jamerson sunburst with all orginal bits is considered a cool and valuable piece by enough people many more will agree to be part of the pack.[/quote] You mean most vintage Fender buyers are sheep-like?

[quote name='4000' post='753616' date='Feb 22 2010, 11:33 AM']As I said, it's a strange irony that in trying to "live and let live" you can get the hump at people not doing which effectively puts you in the same place. One of life's more trying paradoxes. What annoyed me about aspects of this thread (and some other recent ones) isn't that you can't understand why someone would spend that much, but the implication in several posts that there is something wrong with people who are happy to pay that amount of money for something they like, which doesn't come across to me as "healthy debate". Mugabe? Not quite the same as spending £5k on a GUS, really. I think Toasted would have something to say about that sort of argument...... As for being a bit arsey, well I have had facial neuralgia for over 3 months now so maybe my patience has worn a bit thin. I'd happily pay £5k to get rid of that. [/quote] Three things .. Just because I word things in a slightly provocative manner does not mean I am being negative, and the implication that "there is something wrong with people who are happy to pay that amount of money for something they like" was just a bit of banter. You said, live and let live, I used the Mugabe reference in relation to that. Nothing to do with spending £5k on a GUS. I am terribly sorry you have facial neuralgia, that must be a real pisser. You'll probably find most of us have something wrong with us, or have some emotional stresses. I myself have have had ectopic eczema since birth (bad enough to have been studied by the Royal Free) and have just developed dry eye syndrome which is rather annoying. There are things that make up for these things, like buying an Oly White and dark tort vintage Fender Jazz or being in posession of a monster penis.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='753601' date='Feb 22 2010, 11:17 AM']You don't have to agree with it - I'm just saying it's a reason why many people choose to buy one.[/quote] I don't agree, vintage Fenders don't look any cooler than newer ones really, The fact it's a 1965 may make it "feel" like it looks cooler, i'll give you that.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='753589' date='Feb 22 2010, 11:09 AM']along with #4 which you forgot to list... they look cool.[/quote] Ah, you see that is highly subjective, and firmly bound up with #1 Are you able to explain WHY many people think they look "cool"?

The thing is, with any vintage or antique market, deep knowledge of your subject is rewarded, both as a buyer and a seller and as a predictor of the market. It is also a study of human behaviour. As I see it, there are three reasons to buy a vintage Fender: - Inexplicable desire to own a piece of heritage. - Belief that they are the best and it's the only way to achieve "that tone" and will be used as a player. - Investment. All three require some knowledge to different degrees. But the first one is probably the biggest market, although you can combine some or all of the three. There is no real logic to the market though is there. There's an assumption that old Fenders are better quality, better made with better woods, hardware and electronics - made by hand. Much closer to Leo's first visions. But this is where knowledge comes in, there were always dodgy ones. The bigger they got, the more corners were being cut. Leo only sold to CBS because of his health problems and they still retained him as a consultant. But like any big, remote corporation, the value to shareholders was the biggest concern, so naturally CBS wanted to cheapen materials and production, and put more ambitious marketing strategies in place. So Fenders in the '70s especially were all over the place in terms of build. Necks were very variable, so were neck sockets, hardware was being made from cheaper poor quality die cast metals on which the plating was said to be more durable than the metal underneath. Early Fenders are a minefield. But to some people this doesn't matter, it's a Fender, and it's old and it's got a custom colour and a matched headstock and its all original and comes with the OHSC and candy - if it plays and/or sounds like crap, it's not a big concern because there's always a mug out there who will give you a lot of wedge for it. However, it could be the best playing Fender out of the five thousand you've tried but it's a refin. Does it matter? Only to the investment market part of you. But the seller, if they are smart, will not budge much on the price. Are you really going to pass up the chance of owning the best playing Fender out there because the seller's overpriced it and won't move by much?

Wickid! Great night! Felt sh*te the next day

[quote name='4000' post='753386' date='Feb 21 2010, 11:31 PM']Good, cause I can't either. Vent over. EDIT: I'm generally pissed off with everyone who can't live and let live. Of course there's a monumental irony in there but hey, that's life. [/quote] Well, sorry, but it's attitude and debate that have elevated us from the stone age mate. You're having a crack at my thread, or me, you are not living and letting live are you. Perhaps you are happy to let Mugabe live. Who knows? I just find your attitude today a bit arsey and not conducive to healthy debate. Normally I admire you greatly, today you are sounding a bit, well ..

[quote name='4000' post='753372' date='Feb 21 2010, 11:21 PM']That's really funny, because its [i]you[/i] who are belittling people's intelligence by continually posting negative threads like this which are (as I've already stated) basically "I think (insert x) is bollocks and everyone who thinks otherwise is a tosser". Rather than think " I don't really get it but it doesn't really matter" you seem intent on having a go at people. Everyone is free to make there own decisions and what they do with there money is up to them. I doubt I'd pay that much for a GUS but that doesn't make people who would wrong. Just because somebody sees worth in something that you don't it doesn't make them an idiot. In fact on current evidence I'd say that makes them a f*****g genius.[/quote] I was going to issue a rebuttal, but you know what? I can't be arsed. EDIT: Except to say you appear to be pissed off with me rather than the thread.

[quote name='4000' post='753345' date='Feb 21 2010, 10:50 PM']Maybe to somebody it's worth £4000 more than your Corvette, because they may absolutely love it and think your Corvette stinks. I honestly can't believe we're still having these threads, they're so idiotic. "I don't get it so they're wrong" is one of the basic problems with human nature and is why I think 90% of people on the face of the earth are imbeciles. What its worth to you is completely, utterly irrelevant. I could paint you a pretty good picture, but it would not (to those who care) be a Degas. Whether that mattered to you means nothing to those to whom it [i]does[/i] matter. I tell you what, if I had £10,000 I'd go out and get another custom built Alembic and to me it would be worth every penny, while I wouldn't give you £50 for a Warwick Double Buck (or most other basses).[/quote] OK Einstein, why don't you stick to the Theory and Technique section then. To me it's interesting from an economic and human behaviour perspective. If you don't, and think it's puerile, fine, that's cool, but don't start belittling threads like this, most of us don't have your insight and intelligence.

[quote name='Clarky' post='753226' date='Feb 21 2010, 08:35 PM']Calm down Nigel! With an Audere you get the choice of Prawn Skips, Pickled Onion Monster Munch, Curly-Wurly, Walnut Whip, Cinzano Bianco and countless other 70s classic flavours. Plus it is solder-free and so does not devalue one's beloved plank with strings as it can quickly be flipped out again should one acquire more 80s or later tastes. [/quote] Ensure you have some Pepto Bismol handy.

[quote name='Delberthot' post='753064' date='Feb 21 2010, 06:15 PM']Can't beat a good P [/quote] If that "P" is for "POD", I agree with you Fellas, please. You're surly not considering spending £200 on an onboard, so your now devalued bass will sound like a different one but still have the same tonal restrictions?? If you want your Prawn Skips to taste like Pickled Onion Monster Munch, instead of buying some pickled onions and chucking them in your bag of Skips, thereby rendering them into a vinegary, fishy mush, why don't you just buy Pickled Onion Monster Munch?? Dismayed of Ealing.

See, I'll admit he was very funny on occasion, but I could never handle the mindless bigotry.