xilddx

[quote name='steve-bbb' post='1359544' date='Sep 2 2011, 09:38 AM'][b]I think the whole improving without practising thing should come with a caveat about AGE/EXPERIENCE[/b] [b]clearly as a newbie player to stop practising will simply lead to little or no development whatsoever[/b] but for experienced players (in my case old and cynical) then stopping the practising i believe does help because it does give your brain chance to forget dirty habits that youve fallen into over the years i personally stopped playing for 15-16 years and just resumed six months ago - whilst my technique and finger strength have not returned to their youthful prime ( ) i have definitely noticed a few general things about my playing and mainly that i ma a lot cleaner and more precise (and slower!) through not playing - its as if i picked my bass up six months ago and my brain kinows how i 'should' be playing and has gone straight into that groove (rather than 'how i used to play' with all the dirty sloppy lazy technique that just creeps up on you unless you beat it back with the chair and whip) hope that makes sense[/quote] I completely agree with this and probably should have made that a bit clearer in my OP. I've been playing for over 30 years and have a well developed ear and pretty decent technique. The primary tool for my musical endeavours is my musical sense, taste, compositional skills, and my personal way of expressing all these. The less I play, the brighter the beacon of music is in my mind. When the beacon increases its luminosity it inspires me to do focused practice on my weaknesses because I have a compulsion to play something that's in my mind, or that is required by one of my bands. A tiny revelation can spark this off. I played in my studio for about three and a half hours last night on electric and acoutsic guitar, drums, and lastly, about half an hour of bass just sitting on the sofa with no amplification. I was doing things on the bass I have never done before, interesting challenging things that I theoretically don't understand, and it inspired me even more!

[quote name='dood' post='1359490' date='Sep 2 2011, 08:49 AM']Hi Nigel! Ahhh I totally have to agree with the advantages of playing Guitar as well as Bass. I've always played Guitar and a very little Keys too, but after many years of tinkering with drum kits I finally have a lil kit of my own. I've been watching Bob Gatzen and Jo Jo Mayer DVDs, learning all the really geeky stuff like different stick grips too. I've found that my playingbhas taken yet another step up and not only am I enjoying playing a bit of drums, bass has taken yet another new lease of life too. That's great because I've notched up about 22 years playing now and I'm still in love with the damn thing!!![/quote] Drums is another thing, I love playing drums, but I sadly have to sell my kit because the impact on my hands and wrists is taking its toll now. I only play for pleasure anyway, I like hitting them quite hard German grip is my favourite, softer on the hands. Hope you have great fun with your new kit, mate!

[quote name='Doddy' post='1359407' date='Sep 2 2011, 01:41 AM'][b]Why is it 'disparaging of people's natural inquisitiveness' to suggest that they should study alongside playing what they enjoy?[/b] And it's not really idealistic either is it? There are tons of players who play in rock or pop bands yet study jazz or theory or whatever. Studying music isn't going to take away your creativity or your expression-if anything,it will give you more tools and options with which to express yourself on your instrument. As for treating music as a job,for me it is...but it is also something that I'm very passionate about,which is why I take lessons when I can and why I practice whenever I get chance.I'm constantly trying to become a better musician.[/quote] Hello mate. I said that because you are being prescriptive without context. If people are inspired and enjoy what they do, they will most likely naturally gravitate towards more formal study.

Sorry Steve, I'll stop now.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1359159' date='Sep 1 2011, 07:52 PM']I'm exactly the same. Nothing more to add. Wish I'd learned more theory skills, but I was busy having fun instead. I have lost gigs through not being able to read, but what the hell. I can compose my own stuff by ear.[/quote] I turned down a great (paying) gig with some great musicians at the weekend because I simply have not the time. What little I do have is not going on learning to read And before anyone says "get the f*** off 'ere and you'll have some!" I've tried that and it doesn't work

[quote name='lojo' post='1359147' date='Sep 1 2011, 07:38 PM'][b]Funny how these threads come back to reading being the benchmark,[/b] I started the bass clef YTS thread, and made some effort, only to figure out that what I do is what I do and the time I was devoting to it, was better spent on other things as it wont change what I do (play covers in a number of bands) Im not a pro, wont ever be, but earn from gigs, have fun and entertain others If I could go back in time, Id learn to read, but then Id also learn the cruyff turn instinctively along with loads of other skills, and Id have an arsenal of skills that would challenge batman[/quote] Yes, it's weird. And a bit tiresome. Theory is way more useful to my mind and yet never generates this level of polarisation. probably because it's a matter of a sliding scale between can and can't. Theory can be applied in countless ways and is not as debatable.

[quote name='oldslapper' post='1359122' date='Sep 1 2011, 07:14 PM']You have no idea how much I try and stay away from these threads, but I'm tempted again to butt in. Musical development is as much to do with those you play with as much as your own "shed" work. This not only includes they're musical skill, but your colleagues as people. I love playing with the acts/bands I play in because of the relationships I have with each band member. You can shove your talent where it doesn't shine if you're an antisocial knob. I am a guitar/bass tutor and my no. 1 mission is to get each student playing with other musicians, firstly to learn the spoken and unspoken language, as well as the written. It is a social activity, where we learn cooperation, listening, putting the song before our own ambition. These are life skills. But then again, I'm a selfish git and you must do as I say, or the talent fairy will come and put a curse on your alembic. Bye[/quote] Completely agree, music is about communication and there are countless ways to do that.

[quote name='Doddy' post='1359038' date='Sep 1 2011, 05:35 PM']I'd tell them to listen to and play the music they enjoy and join a band playing what you like...but also learn to read,learn about chord tones/scales etc.,take lessons and don't limit yourself.[/quote] That's idealistic and a cardboard cut-out approach though, Doddy. Also disparaging of people's natural inquisitiveness to find out more about the things they love doing. The beauty of music and anything creative is that there are always limits to your own ability, and no limits to the possibilities. When the student is ready, the teacher will arrive. Also, have you any idea how dispiriting it is to try and learn something but have little application for what you are learning? And trying to absorb too much too quickly? If someone starts playing in a band they enjoy, they will not remain static, their desires will show them a path to their needs and create their own particular evolution of musical expression, which is surely the objective? They will seek out knowledge and guidance that suits their needs. If they don't understand their own needs and desires, what are the possibilities of them becoming expressive? Don't take this ill mate, but you do sometimes come over as treating music as a job, for which a common set of tools is necessary.

[quote name='Faithless' post='1358934' date='Sep 1 2011, 04:12 PM']Oh my.. It's just not funny. The thing is - you don't become better at something by [b]not [/b]doing it. If you needed a break, and now feel fresh coming back, then that's fine, but stating that you got better is just wrong. Not wrong for you, Sildx, but wrong for those upcoming players who read this and catch on this. I probably wouldnt be arsed to go into this, but stuff like this reminds me of hundreds of young players catching Jaco's quote on "Being able to do it without practising" the wrong way. If there are any upcoming players, who need info on practising and getting better [u]through [/u]working, then there is some material for you to check out: [url="http://www.joehubbardbass.com/332/bass-guitar-practice-principles-part-1/"]http://www.joehubbardbass.com/332/bass-gui...nciples-part-1/[/url] All questions are welcome via PM. Easy Laimis[/quote] Laimis. A quick question. If I was an up and coming bassist and I said to you, "I love pop and rock music, and I want to play the bass guitar in a rock band, but I don't know where to start, what do I do?" What would you say to me?

[quote name='oldslapper' post='1358662' date='Sep 1 2011, 12:13 PM']I'm going to suggest there's a lot more to being a musician than, for instance, whether you can play, by ear, "flight of the bumble bee" fluently and accurately with great "groove", whilst hanging upside down in a vat of pims, with your bass behind your neck. Or whether you can accurately read, interpret and play Rachmaninov's 3rd piano concerto on your 6 string foderbernieshukebic. Reading, or "just playing by ear" is only part of being musical......and I don't really even know what that means and I suspect that no one else does in full, we're all on a journey, no ones' is better than anyone else's. I get tired of people laying it on other's about what they should do, we've all been "should on" from a great height at some point or another, don't need it here thank you very much. Very happy to post links to notable blind musicians, classical and contemporary. Or links to deaf musicians who were pretty tasty, again classical and contemporary. But I have a feeling it won't help, as won't this post. Who you are is more important, not what you can do. If you're identity is only in what you can do, then you're royaly screwed if, for some tragic reason, you're unable to do it anymore.[/quote] This is my point. But I think the world we live in seems to commodotise everything, and it stifles personal expression and the gentle and troublesome road to finding one's voice. There is so much pressure to conform to stereotypes. Personally speaking I feel I can apply my voice to numerous diverse activities and derive much pleasure from them by taking my own path. I'm no great cook, angler, artist, musician, safety adviser, web designer, etc. but take away my hearing and I could still express myself happily through the others and not be traumatised by the loss. Being a musician is not the key to my identity anymore, and I am happier for that.

[quote name='Skol303' post='1358541' date='Sep 1 2011, 10:38 AM']Here I go, blundering into this discussion and likely to put my big, sweaty foot in something... Surely, regardless of personal situations, it's better to know how to read music than not, if you're a musician. That doesn't mean you HAVE to read music. If you're having a happier time not worrying about it, then that surely speaks for itself. [b]But if we could take a magic pill and suddenly be fluent at sight reading then we would, no? [/b] If you're not enjoying learning to read notation; if you find it to be a chore that's taking away the fun and enjoyment from music, then stop. It's simple. But don't try justifying your decision by trying to persuade yourself (and others) that you're giving up because it's unnecessary, as that just comes across as sour grapes. If you're going to give up on something, do so in earnest, not begrudgingly. Otherwise the pangs of regret will only come back and bite you in time... Here endeth the sermon ;-) [PS: magical pills for learning notation are available from Skol Industries at the usual address... at least I think that's what these pills are for; I haven't been able to sit down for weeks!!][/quote] Think I'd rather have the sex god pill thanks.

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1358009' date='Aug 31 2011, 08:23 PM']My only criticism on your position, Nigel, is that there are many impressionable people out there who look to established folk for advice on what is the besty to get better. My position is to advocate the btroadest possible learning experiences and the widest possible range of tools. That way, a developing player can get good and keep getting good as they find themselves. If i use myself as an example, I started on ELO then Iron Maiden/NWOBHM, Rock, Prog, fusion, Jazz. If I had stuck with the 'stuff I needed' at stage one of that journey, I may have been denied the opportunity to move onto the other stages and shot myself in the foot in terms of the real journey I was on as opposed to the one I thought I was on a 17. Of course people can 'get away with' limited learning (there are millionaires with [i]that[/i] CV) but I always advocate for the widest learning possible to ensure that the individual's potential is given the best possible chance. Its easy to think you are good when you are the best player in Aberystwyth, for example. Its what you are like when you leave that will count. The thing I hear most from older players (espacially the ones that give up) is 'I wish I had......'. All I say is 'do the work and it will pay you back'. Advocating for the shortest distance between two points is irresposnible, IMO. But then again, I may be a total arse.....[/quote] Um, your only criticism, Rob, is that my entire viewpoint is irresponsible The thing is, impressionable people need guidance to happiness and inspiration to continue their path, otherwise it's just work, and that can put them off continuing I think. When they develop a little, and hopefully start to realise their potential, then they need further guidance, and so on and on. You already know I agree that for many musical endeavours, a solid foundation in the academic is necessary. But there are many musical disciplines (I use that word loosely) that don't. I think the important thing about music is that people are enabled to express themselves on their guitar or bass, therefore physical facility is of paramount importance at the start, then some basic theory, then some more theory. But developing ones ears and philosophy is the most important thing to my mind, and it is possible to do that without much theory and certainly without reading. Of course, there are instruments that demand an academic approach.

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1357945' date='Aug 31 2011, 07:48 PM']Cheers for the input!!! Although a lot of it is simple stuff really, non of it really came to mind. Haha. No material as such I've been given, although I'm going to learn some songs from the bands influences to get the general gist of the tune style. Don't want to turn up and play some heavy J-rock.[/quote] They are auditioning you but given you no material to learn? Odd.

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1357667' date='Aug 31 2011, 04:06 PM']A large part of some misery I've been getting is the fact I've come from guitar playing to bass. I want to be a good bass player not a good guitarist that plays bass. Ive been enjoying "regressing" by playing guitar and usinga pick on bass lately. I'll soon get bored again and play fingers hahaa.[/quote] I suppose it depends what level you're at, but forget all that. It's mostly rubbish. What does 'being a good bass player' mean? To me it means understanding your role within a particular ensemble, and interpreting the music you are playing with sensitivity to the writer's intentions. It's no different from any other instrument. You have a musical voice, you just need to find it. Usually that is listening to other musicians play and deciding what you like and don't like. The problems start when you get told all sorts of stuff from people and you feel you HAVE to learn them in order to be a GOOD bassist. You MUST learn all the notes on the board, you MUST know all scales in all keys, you MUST understand the cycle of fifths and fourths, you MUST (god forbid) understand the II IV I movement, you MUST learn to read music notation, you MUST try flats on a P bass, yadda yadda .. The only thing you MUST do, is ignore all this and get in tune with your personal musical needs and voice and follow them. You will build your toolbox based on what you personally need, not what the cardboard cut out bassist curriculum from the academy dictates. Of course, this comes from my point of view of the pop and rock bassist playing original music. To be a good sessioneer, jazzer, or play classical or other musical form rooted in heritage and discipline, you will need all those theory and reading skills, and a technical toolbox you can execute with ease. In which case a good teacher will be what you need. But never forget you have a voice of your own, don't be afraid to use it. Many of the great rock guitarists studied players of other instruments, like horns and winds, for their phrasing. A lot of great bassists look to cello for inspiration. As a guitarist, you probably have loads of expressive techniques down that 'real' bassists never really look at, use them.

[quote name='Johnston' post='1357331' date='Aug 31 2011, 11:40 AM']So how did Stevie Wonder manage it?[/quote] His dog did it for him.

But what's the backing track like, Chris? Does it have a TRUE reggae feel, or is it white man reggae? If the drum track isn't right, you won't get it. It is impossible to approach this technically. You absolutely have to feel it. You can not fake it. You can play on the beat, that's not the problem. The issue is whether your line, and the drums, are creating that particular reggae vibration you need. Play with your thumb on the side of the fingerboard, you will get a natural delay that way but try not to over compensate. You absolutely have to be feeling it or it will sound awfully fake. You'll feel a fizz inside you when it's right. And chris b is correct.

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1357286' date='Aug 31 2011, 11:05 AM']And why is it your weakest instrument do you think?... I don't think reading a recipie out of a book is something that has to be "learned". I think it's something that any old fool can do really. I think the piano is more of a theory based instrument than the guitar or the bass because of it's layout. If you want to play the occasional song on the piano that you learn just by listening to a song then fine but really if you want to become very good on the piano, it's more than just sitting down and playing it. I know this because i've never been able to get any good at the piano from just sitting down and playing songs.[/quote] I don't agree mate. The piano is one of the easiest instruments to learn theory on because it has a linear layout. An instrument with courses (such as a guitar) makes it a three dimensional instrument and therefore more difficult to learn and apply theory to.

You need to put your address on that form mate. Also, I thought he only made fretless?

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1357240' date='Aug 31 2011, 10:28 AM']I think you would have to learn to read music if you played the piano.[/quote] I'm not so sure I would. To follow my usual cooking analogy .. I look at reading music as following a recipe and ending up with a plate of food. I see theory as much more important than reading, understanding how the ingredients work together, learning the intricacies of why established well known recipes work, why they are tasty and popular. Learning various cooking techniques - once you can make a roux, you can make all kinds of sauces etc. The theory will help you create your own recipes. There are occasions where theory and technique involve following recipies, but there are several ways of learning these recipies beyond reading from a book.

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1357226' date='Aug 31 2011, 10:17 AM']I can completely relate to this. My biggest leap forward in bass playing occurred after a 5 year break from playing bass as my main instrument which included a 2 year break from playing in a band. When I started again I was playing fretless (something I'd never done before) on over half the songs in my new band within 6 months of joining them. Recently I've been doing most of my song writing on the guitar and I'm finding that my 6-string skills are considerably better than they were last time I was the guitarist in a band. That's why I'm a big believer in being able to play more than one musical instrument.[/quote] Absolutely mate. They feed eachother don't they. For me anyway, there is so much synergy to be had from playing bass, guitar, some drums, and singing. If I had enough time, I'd be learning piano.

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1357215' date='Aug 31 2011, 10:07 AM']It'll never last....[/quote] It will last until I discover a real need to read. I did some learning about 6 months ago and I know I could do it with the right motivation. I just don't need to read, Bilbo, that's the crux of the biscuit. But being told so often that I should learn to read by people on here made me feel guilty and incomplete as a musician. That's how basschat can f*** you up if you don't have a steel heart. I can't seem to stay away though

[quote name='apa' post='1356938' date='Aug 30 2011, 10:07 PM']The un silked ones are the 'Player' Series which are nickel plated and yes they are Horrible things silddx But the red/blue silked ones are lovely, very tonal and rich. So it might be the 'Stadium' Series then chrismuzz? A[/quote] I used Stadium Elites for ages but that was when I had no taste and thought they must be good because they were called 'Elites'. I use DRs now because they really ARE good. The Stadium Elites died quickly in my hands.

Fair Warning - Van Halen Keys To Ascension - Yes Lyrical Sitar - Pandit Nikhil Bannerjee African Anthem - The Mikey Dread Show Dubwise

[quote name='bassjamm' post='1356978' date='Aug 30 2011, 10:52 PM']Thanks for the suggestions and links people. Anyone got any Jazz stuff to put forward maybe? In a similar vein to Janek Gwizdala's stuff, I really think his stuff grooves!!! J[/quote] Oh! You should have said! Check out some Alain Caron.

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' post='1356845' date='Aug 30 2011, 08:56 PM'][b]Well The Bass Gallery in Camdem is great but it's more of an "High End" $$$$ boutique store[/b], I would suggest a new store that has been opened less than 2 months called Guitar Guitar which so far has the larger stocks of basses and amps I've ever seen under one roof. It's a little out of town but worth a train ride, here is the address: Guitar Guitar Epsom Store 6 Capitol Square, Church St Epsom, KT17 4NY Tel. 01372 730578 [email protected] Store Hours Mon - Sat - 10:00am - 5:30pm Sun - 11:00am - 5:00pm[/quote] Not IME. They have a good range of price.