Al Krow

Came across this YT video, which was really helpful in terms of more detailed EQ settings for each channel strip, which I'd initially not managed to figure out from the manual:

Allen & Heath CQ-18T - Learning From The Complete Channels

Fwiw, I don't think 1" is a particularly small sensor - I personally think it's pretty decent and good for low light/gig situations. Very few mobile phones have anything approaching that, and videocams with 1" sensors can easily cost >> £1k

I also really like the fact that, unlike normal cameras, the video recording time isn't artificially limited to 20 to 30 mins but can capture a full 1 hr set without needing to be reset!

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

To be honest I hardly use it. I just dont seem to go anywhere interesting much at the moment. 

Saying that, I have no regrets. It's certainly the best hand held video camera ive owned. very easy to use and IQ is really good. My iPhone probably does just as well but doesn't have the stabilisation, and is a bit noisier in low light (or there is more NR appleid so not quite as sharp). 

It  has a nice DR and seems to handle bright lights well. it's a big improvement on my old OP2, which hasn't been used in about 3 years. 

 

I recently got a small magnetic mount for it so hoping to use it more at gigs from the stage. 

Thanks for that update, Dave. Excuse my ignorance but what does DR stand for?

Do you have a link to the magnetic mount - sounds like a good accessory to have!

Have you used it with the wireless mic, was thinking that may come in handy if the camera is being mounted on a PA pole?

How you getting on with your Osmo Pocket 3 Dave? Still preferring it to other kit for live music recording?

I see these are available online for around £450 which seems to be a decent price for such a capable bit of kit!

3 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

 

 

Just looked and mine was £11.25 with £2.25 tax added.

Yeah mine were £13.50 apiece, all in, too.

3 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

 

I didn't think you'd pay tax on a low value item?

There used to be a £15 low value item exemption on imported goods, but that got scrapped a while back, I think?

10 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

The stereo is if you are being fed a stereo signal from an XLR rather than the more normal mono. I don't know if it actually reads stereo from a TRS - haven't tried it. The chapman stick sends stereo down an XLR so it is handy for me

The behringer can do the same, but its mono / stereo switch is on the circuit board on a tiny switch that most people dont' notice.

 

The casing is steel and seems like you would have to go out of your way to damage it.

 

Cheers - at £13.50 a pop including (including P&P and import taxes) and with a separately openable battery section, these Alt P2s seem to be a bit of a no brainer punt! I've just ordered a couple via Ali Express instead of the £27 (plus P&P) Behringer P2s

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

The link I have doesn't go anywhere now, but this is the same thing https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007849338535.html

 

 

The clip on my P2 is very bent, I dont' know how, as the drummer used it most, it does tend to snag on stuff, the clip on the fake p2 is the same style but doesn't stick out as far, and it has a thumbscrew that tightens it up, which is good. It is good that they took the P2, which is fundamentally pretty good, and made it better - I am not worried about the mono / stereo, never used that but not having to take the case off to replace the batteries (which I did every other gig anyway, with rechargables, is a good idea

Is the point about the mono/stereo the ability to use a TS guitar lead vs a (more expensive) TRS cable e.g. if you are being fed from a aux out from the desk?

Also is the casing on the tribute P2 as sturdy as the Behringer P2?

The point about having a battery housing without needing to remove the entire casing just to replace batteries, is a good one.

£28 for a pair of Tribute P2 vs literally double for the Behringer P2 (which were already feeling like a bargain at £27 plus P&P each) and for a better product seems like the ultimate no brainer!

2 minutes ago, TimR said:

Following the SBL IEM video, I have put some ZS10s on my Christmas list. I'm not sure if I'll use them as stage IEMs as seems like a bit of a faff fot not much return, although following our last gig, even moderate volume is giving me ringing in the ears when I get to bed.

 

Wanted to try them to see how good they were for home practice while isolating external noise/distractions. If they're good will look at wireless and mini mixer options. 

Could I recommend the KZ ZARs, which are one of the top of the range KZs...they have been so much better than the entry level ZS10s I had, which almost made me give up with IEMs after using them for the best part of a year, in terms of a less harsh and much more comfortable sound, particularly if you are getting ringing in your ears?

If you scroll back, I think you'll find my experience with the ZARs has been mirrored by several others on this thread. I've just picked up a set off AliExpress for around £45 all in for a new band mate who is going wireless IEM.

17 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

More a tribute than a clone - it isn't pretending to be a behringer, but it is sort of a copy. However, not only was it cheap, the volume knob is better and on the clip on the back, you can undo a bolt and put batteries in a holder, rather than sliding the tube out. Also the button which opens the sleve on the behringer is actually a stereo / mono push button.

Well, you've whetted my apetite - may have to return the P2s...could you share the link to the tribute/clone copy you bought on AliExpress please?

One of the issues folk have commented about the P2 is about the clip snapping off, is the tribute/copy you bought any better?

13 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Our drummer ordered one too, because he was using mine - but at the same time I ordered one of the aliexpress copies. So now he doesn't borrow mine I have mine free, and the aliexpress one (which I must say is very good and also £17 inc), but they are handy when I need one!

They seem to be full price on Ali Express? Have you got a Behringer P2 clone from them?

If so, there's an irony in Behringer being cloned and also in you not thinking Amazon are a proper store 😅

On 28/11/2024 at 13:53, Woodinblack said:

 

As have Andertons for a few months as well, if you want to use a proper company!

On 28/11/2024 at 09:57, RichardH said:

Amazon have Behringer P2s on sale at £27 at the moment should anyone fancy any...

That's a really good price! Advantage of Amazon for Prime members is obviously the free shipping, however...Amazon are currently saying a 2 to 5 MONTH despatch period!!

Andertons reckon they will have more stock in on Monday (let's see) and a single £2.99 Evri delivery fee, seemingly irrespective of the quantity. I've just ordered a couple for my crew (particularly with our deps in mind).  (Something even better value came up spotted by @Woodinblack see below).

8 hours ago, cetera said:

Answers:

1: 4

2: Both

3: Nope

4: Nope

5: Solid foundation

 

You're welcome  🤣😂

Ok wtf is solid foundation vs technical noodling all about?!

And why doesn't someone who is as good a bass player as you, use a....😅

On 16/11/2024 at 09:31, Sibob said:

We’ll agree to disagree, my opinion is that it’s their intent to deceive, on whatever level.

The litmus test would be to produce those same pedals in a country that is WAY more consistent with enforcing it’s IP legal framework, and let us know how many days it takes to receive the cease and desist 🤷‍♂️.

 

People will buy what they want, the free market wins out and there will always be loopholes ‘acceptable’ exceptions through precedent…but we exist in a relatively tiny (bass) industry…and I’m sure we’d all like to continue having nice things available to us. DemonFX are some peoples acceptable exception, not for me. 

 

Si 

This is a really interesting topic. I think a lot of folk have got comfortable with Joyo and Behringer these days? Several of us really liked the Valeton OC-2 clone, particularly with the more compact housing than the Boss, although Boss seem to have successfully shut down production of that even though the package it came was very different to the Boss pedals.

And dammit @glassmoon's review makes this a very tempting purchase as they seem to have improved on some of the flaws of the original e.g. the volume disparity of the OGS circuit.

Is there a parallel to the live music that we engage in, rather than the electronic most of us don't have the expertise to make, would your same logic apply to Tribute bands? Should they only be allowed to perform with the express agreement of the bands they are copying? Or are they targeting a completely different audience to the original bands in terms of ticket pricing and venues? 

42 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

While i with you, and gear placement is very important, he turns up, kicks the light/lights out of the way so he can place his gear and thats it. Doesn’t care what happens to the lights. Or he places cases (absolutely no need to have them on stage, especially not in my example above) in front of the lights with no regard to how the band will look to the audience. Its an uphill struggle trying to keep the band looking professional and entertaining.

Oh, and if he was to turn up on time, or not hang around watching the rest of us setting up this might not happen

I suspect with that approach he wouldn't last too long in some of our bands Dave! You're clearly far too nice!

3 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

I have an Alto TS312 which works very well with the Alto T312 tops. It has impressed the whole band with the depth and clarity. 

Cheers Steve, that one's been on my shortlist too, along with decent lighting now that we've got a decent digital desk sorted! Just to clarify it's actually the TS 12S model, right? I think the TS312 is just a normal woofer not a sub woofer? Looks like it comes in at 26kg and delivers a whopping a 1250W RMS.

Completely agree about the impact of losing low end in an outdoor gig! We were doing the music for a 10K run and the band were asking why have you got the bass turned up so high on the FoH, so I turned it down to what we might usually have indoors and asked them to stand just a few metres in front of the speakers where the bass had faded to very little and that settled the debate!

The FBT 2x8 208SA which @Phil Starr looks intriguing given its light weight (20 kg) and compact size, and hopefully 600W RMS / 129sB SPL should add quite a bit, but at around £1k doesn't match the Alto (around £450) in terms of pricing.

6 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

While that's true, he needs to get his gear on stage and place it in the right place. Maybe there's an argument about whether that requirement should be borne in mind when the lights are being set up. 

 

In terms of lighting itself, I have two of those 4 lamp led bars and two single led lamps. 

 

They are all controlled by a foot controller and simple dmx. The bars are set to solid colours and the single lamps are always white (so I can see the side markers).

 

All the lighting is on two stands either side of the stage. 

 

I have always looked at how lighting is used at concerts. You never see the random colour changes of auto sequences or sound to light. That's why I thought I should learn basic dmx and create some simple settings for a handful of changes. 

Sounds good Steve. Do you have a pic of your set up and can share the make/model/pricing of your set up please?

@Pirellithecat as requested, some fuller impressions on the A&H CQ18T having spent about 6 hours getting up to speed on it.

1. The interface and menus are pretty intuitive to get to grips with. There's decent online YT hints / tuition plus a detailed manual. 

2. In the relatively short time I've spent so far I've managed to get a 'scene' set up with input levels mirroring what I had with my analogue desk, but with the benefit of 4 tailored outputs, which we can tweak when we meet up to gig. So far I've based on what my bandmates typically want in their IEMs e.g. more own vox for the singers etc.

3. I'm loving the fact that you can label all the inputs / IEM outs and save everything as you go along to create a basic template and then make a back-up in seconds. If you're used to creating patches on a multifx starting with a basic template then you will feel very at home with this desk.

4. The 7" screen is great and the dials make it easy to adjust the faders, actually even more precisely than physical faders which was an unexpected capability - I suspect if we had been limited to a touchscreen it would have been the other way around.

5. I've set up the 3 soft keys to: mute the main outputs, mute the IEM outputs and to record / stop multitrack recording.

6. Speaking of multitrack recording - I'm also loving having the ability to record up to 16 tracks at 96 kHz sample rate which can be any combination of individual tracks, plus the FoH output if you also want the latter, and tweak input/output levels via the touchscreen. That feels like a massive step up from an analogue desk (even with multi-track capability like my existing Soundcraft MTK12) where we've need to plug into a laptop and often with glitchiness in terms of not all tracks getting recorded.

The one thing I've not figured out yet is whether it is possible is to apply something more bespoke than the low/high/mid EQ adjustments to the inputs? Similarly I've so far only found a one touch button for HPF and compression for inputs, whereas e.g. on the HPF it should be possible to tailor at what frequency the HPF kicks in at? But I've managed to apply a bespoke, albeit global across all the channels, PEQ to the outputs including an HPF cut and a 3dB boost in the lower mids.

Obviously the desk needs to be tried out in anger with my band live, but I'm already feeling pretty confident now that I've got a basic grasp of this to get a decently mixed FoH sound and IEM monitoring for us. I'm also feeling less worried about not having physical faders given the mute switches. Anyway fingers crossed!

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

As a cut down mixer maybe you are expected to add your own WiFi router if you need to use that, and save money if you don’t. This is not like the XR where you have to use an external device. 

Yeah - that's a fair point Dave. The CQ12T and 18T are standalone desks effectively featuring a "built in tablet".

I guess the lack of wifi on the 12T is a product differentiation point - the 18T is £175 more and for that you get: 6 extra inputs, wifi, an extra 2 FX and 3 additional control dials. Worth the extra (particularly if you get lucky as I managed, and pick up a B stock 18T for only £40 extra!). If everything was available on the 12T other than the extra inputs, there would maybe be a lot fewer takers for the 18T or the 12T would need to come in at a price point much closer to the 18T?

Fyi - in terms of the additional FX on the CQ18T, the 4 categories on offer:

1. "easy verb" - 3 vocals, string slap, percussion, drum room, string, brass, woodwind & piano

2. "echo verb" - with different flavours and delay times

3. fully fledged chorus

4. double tracker

I'll probably stick to easy verb for the vocals, otherwise there's definitely risk of option paralysis: the desk is actually doubling up as a multi-channel multifx!

26 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

how could the montor app work if you don't have some kind of network? I assume that is why it isn't listed.

Seems a huge oversite from A&H - wireless network devices cost pennies at manufacturing time, to leave it off the 12 seems crazy.

Just to clarify - it is listed on the 12T ("App Control" icon)

35 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

I have learned something new about the CQs. I new that the 12 had no WiFi and limited effects compared to the 18/20 but did not know that it could not use the monitor app. Does that change  if you use a standalone WiFi router?

I've pulled this from the A&H website which seems to indicate that the App control is also available on 12T as well as the 18T. I guess the 12T will be needing a standalone Wifi to make use of the App control. 

47 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Best advice i can give is take it a rehearsal or two and get used to it. Also let the band get used to it. The more familiar everyone is the smoother things will go at the gig. 
I always take mine now, as there is always something i need to tweak or figure out. We just run the stereo out in to the studio’s desk. 

43 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

I take our QC12 desk to all of our rehearsals (at a professional rehearsal space); I simply swap out the speaker leads of the in-house desk for our desk!  All settings saved and quicker set up times plus I get to practice using the desk.

 

You gents seem to have much more joy getting your crews to rehearsals, haha! How often do you guys rehearse vs gig?

We will hopefully manage to get a rehearsal in ahead of our NYE gig as we are doing that one with a couple of deps, but we've another 8 gigs in the diary before then, so I'll need to get up to speed beforehand and tweak at the gigs. They're all used to IEMs already - so hopefully the only difference for the drummer and guitarist is that they can have bespoke monitor feeds rather than just getting the FoH mix.

Ideally they will be able to use the A&H CQ app on their phones to tweak their own personal monitor feedback to suit - is that something you are doing for those of you with the A&H CQ desks / other digital desks?

On 21/10/2024 at 16:04, Pirellithecat said:

So, whens the CQ18-T's first outing?  We expect a "warts an' all" write-up!   Can hardly wait!  

Back at my desk (excuse the pun!) and had a little bit of time to start getting up to speed on the CQ18T. I'd got a very basic idea of the controls after an hour or so, in particular the inputs and outputs, and reckon should have the same level of functionality on this as my analogue desk and be in a position to use for a gig within another couple of hours. The touch screen is really easy to use and the rotary dials can separately operate the faders (in addition to having option to do that on the touch screen) which gives a greater level of finesse for anyone who doesn't have dainty fingers.

The ability to save "scenes" to suit a particular line up / vocalist and have the ability to deliver 6 tailored outputs to every band member, combined with the compact size of the unit seem to be worth the entry ticket on this piece of kit alone. And that's before doing any deep dive in terms of flexible EQ & FX for every channel plus the benefit of a built in router allowing us to tweak settings on the fly from the audience, all of which I will need to get my head around.

But I'm already struggling to see how this isn't going to be a step up for our band!

On 04/11/2024 at 20:08, Misdee said:

I've heard some whispers that Yamaha might be bringing out a new range next year.

Ooooh that is potentially exciting news! Will be their first new range since, well, we started this thread back in 2017!

On 13/11/2024 at 22:24, Duroc17 said:

Got the BB734a today. I get it now. Great bass. Got TI flats on.  Rehearsal tomorrow 😎

Congratulations! Your first BB or long time user?

On 12/11/2024 at 10:50, urbanx said:

For The Hornets debuting our new song "Delusions' in Cambridge last month. Simple but lovely bass bits. 

 

 

 

Great energy - nice one!