Al Krow

23 hours ago, TeresaFR said:

I recently jumped into the wireless world, but not wanting to spend big money that I don't have, and not wanting a cumbersome body pack, I eventually opted for the Nu>X C5-RC. I needed something that would most likely work with active basses (it does), and from the reviews I watched and read, the Nu>X systems seemed to be amongst the best at a price point I could afford. So far, it's all been good, but I've not tried the system outside my flat. I did think it wasn't working on my Schecter SLS Evil Twin but no, I'd turned a volume down before I switched over from my Schecter Riot and forgot to put it back up - which explained how the tuner could pick it up but still get no sound.

The Nux are great, particularly with the low interference 5.8 gHz.

I tried mine at an open air gig a short while back and my IEMs gave way long before the Nux did. Well actually more accurately the Nux didn't, even 100m down the track!

1 hour ago, JohnDaBass said:

Well done Al 👏👏

That's a great deal.

I didn't like to let on but I committed the same offence buying a s/h off here for £125.😂

B2-4 sounds the same as the B6, cleaner and more open than the B1-4.

There are no cab sims on the B2-4, I only use the cab sims on the B1-4 when using headphones at home , so not really important.

Hope you soon get on with the B2-4 

Thanks John, I've actually gone for the G2-4 (the guitar edition) not the B2-4...largely inspired by your post above regarding the android app 😊

Liking the prospect of the cleaner / more open sound you are getting. I suspect down to the upgraded chip set. The B1-4 is definitely a little muffled, particularly with the noise reduction fx added.

@JohnDaBass managed to snaffle a B stock Zoom G2-4 for £82 from Bax. 

Be interested to see how I get on with it - given it doesn't have the bass specific models on it.

I'm mainly using the B1-4 for tone shaping / preamp duties and the G2-4 effects list includes Parametric EQs which should get me where I need to be, plus it has the usual pitch shift, modulation, and hopefully usable dirt (Rat fx) plus drum, looper, tuner, aux in

But it's more compact form factor vs the B2-4, Android editing (not yet available on the MS-60B+ or B2-4) and more current chipset vs the B1-4 means it's definitely worth a punt at that price!

1 hour ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

We probably gig once a month, on average - though we’re still in our infancy. We don’t need the money at all, it’s a hobby for us. The money goes in a band kitty for band expenses/improvements etc 

Sounds great and I wish you every success! Being in a hobby band can and should be a LOT of fun!

59 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I was speaking from a band full of FT musicians making money through the band/teaching

When you are coming from a hobbiyist point of view, cancelling gigs, having people turn up having not learned the set doesn't matter as much*

*but appreciate you don't have to be FT have a pride in what you are doing. 

For sure. We're all coming from this at different angles, expectations and pressures. 

And, as you say, if you've been booked to do a wedding then you absolutely can't be in a position to let the wedding couple down!

For semi-pro or pro musicians, there's going to be a difference in expectation from bandmates and clients alike, both as musicians and as band leaders.  And there will be many in such crews who will have taken the brave step of making (and teaching) music their "main" thing in terms of trying to make a living from it, while doing part time zero hour contracts to keep the roof over their heads. And that brings a whole different perspective to being in a band and a band leader.

23 minutes ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

We only book gigs that we can all make. We’ve not had to deal with short notice absence yet - we’d have to cancel in that event.

Gotcha. Out of interest how many gigs a year are you guys doing and are any of the band reliant on income from the gigs, or is it more of a purely fun / hobby band, and gig fees more bonus "pocket money"?

9 minutes ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

Horses for courses, isn’t it? We’ve had discussions about bringing in new members and deps and so on, and found ourselves in agreement - the four of us are the band. Remove one of us for a gig, and it’s no longer ‘us’. It might be good, it might even be better (god forbid!) - but it wouldn’t be us. 

This is very true and very much how our singer feels when one of the "core" band is missing. Personally I enjoy the variety and different approaches of talented musos who feel they are part of the band and all have something different and useful to contribute which gets shared across to whichever line up is playing.

What do you guys do when one of you can't make a gig, do you just have ad hoc deps coming in?

40 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

re:4 dont make them too comfortable though... cos then they take the pss with you. If I had my time again, I would be nah, 1 strike you're out. Plenty of other people willing to get regular good money (pro fees) in their pockets.

I totally agree with this! The way it's panning out for us is that we've ended up with, in effect, two line ups to make sure we generally have a crew who are fully up to speed with all our material e.g. if one of us needs a weekend off for whatever reason. Also means we can take on the odd function while having the second line up at one of regular pub residencies, without having to p*ss off the pub by cancelling on them. It's led to a bit of insecurity on the part of the original crew, but equally there's definitely little complacency and we're all expecting the best from each other at every gig. Someone said to me you won't get any serious football team with just 11 players in the line up, which I thought was an interesting analogy.

46 minutes ago, JohnDaBass said:

It seems that Zoom have released Android software for G2Four, can that Handy Guitar Lab app (£0.75) be used with B2 Four?

 

Oh that is exciting news - could be a game changer for both the B2-Four and MS-60B+

"Is running a band really worth it?

I think the short answer is it really should be!! Playing a key role in enabling both yourself and your bandmates to make great music, playing a fantastic instrument to appreciative audiences: should be massively rewarding!

But dealing with endless admin is never fun. Figuring out how to avoid musical burnout, and keeping things fresh / not getting jaded can be a challenge, and has certainly been for me over the past year. Having like minded and enthusiastic bandmates to help share the load makes a big difference. Also easier if you all have the same goals e.g. is this a primarily a hobby band or are you aiming for something more semi-pro? How many and what type of gigs (e.g. pubs vs functions) and working out what leadership style is going to work best to get you there e.g. band-ocracy or band-tatership or something in between?

These words are from a fellow BC'er, on another thread not too long back about BLs,  which I found had so much wisdom:

1. Be respectful

2. Good communication

3. None of us are making our millions so it needs to be fun

4. Make bandmates feel valued if you want them to stay

36 minutes ago, PinkMohawk said:

How easy do you find it to set up a patch? Is it easy to copy a basic patch and add onto it easily, or is it a big faff?

Super easy. Particularly if you edit on PC using the free Tonelib software - it's then literally just a few seconds job to copy and paste and then another min or so to select additional effects or to reposition them in the chain.

The lack of availability of similar editing software for non-Apple devices was a key factor in giving up on the recently released MS-60B+ which I'd had high hopes for.

17 hours ago, PinkMohawk said:

Is the Zoom B1-Four still the king of cheap and battery powered multi's, or has anyone else moved into the space and started competing with them? I'm doing a club at my uni and if I can get something cheap and cheerful that'll just go in a gigbag rather than needing to bring my board along for rehearsals, that'd be ideal. 

Yes it is! 😊

33 minutes ago, SumOne said:

I'm gonna be contrary and say I can't see much point in preamp pedals. 

 

Perhaps they are useful playing through a PA with no backline and not wanting to DI from an Amp, but multi-fx would seem a more flexible option to me for that most of the time.  Even a cheap multi-fx unit will do a better live job by having Amp/Drive/Cab/IR/EQ/HPF/LPF and presets all available. And if playing live at pub sort of level then most players still go through an actual Amp which includes a preamp so not much need for a pedal version. And if home recording then a clean signal generally seems best (to then edit later) - multi-fx can act as an interface to your Laptop for that whereas many preamp pedals can't. 

 

I dunno, but they kind of seem to be a solution to a problem that doesn't exist for 90% of situations.........perhaps why so many are for sale on here?!

The nice thing about multifx is the ability to set and forget. The trouble with cheap multifx like my Zoom B1-4 is that they can be noisy and you end up loading them up with a noise reduction patch which can take a little of the life out of your sound. But the flexibility is fantastic. I was eyeing up the Walrus Badwater as a tempting prospect but then discovered that the "lower" mid range starts from 500Hz and the "upper" mids go from 3.5kHz to 7.5kHz. So a big gap in the 100 Hz to 250 Hz in terms of being able to add a bit of weight to your bass tone, and not really adding too much to our desk in terms of tone shaping. 

So maybe the best of both worlds is going to be a decent rather than a cheap multifx and it will, of course, do a lot else besides.

47 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

I'm going to duck that one Al. Beyond my pay grade, I'm not a studio engineer.

 

This was a practical observation sparked off because I've just bought a new sub. (I know, there's me telling everyone else not to bother). We were trying to see where to set the levels relative to the tops and initially I couldn't be certain that they were actually working at all, so I turned off the tops to check. Sure enough there was a faint rumble. I turned the sub up a bit and reconnected the tops and now it was way too loud. To be fair I've noticed this many times before when using subs, a little goes a long way.

 

I suppose the thing I'm trying to say more generally is to ignore the idea that there is one solution for every band. Very few of us actually 'need' to take a huge sub with us to every gig in the UK and that's probably true in most of Europe. Gigs in the USA may be different. For many of us too music is a hobby, it's OK to want a sub you don't need or to choose not to go that route. We all play in a unique variety of venues and the Venn diagram of our set lists probably shows a remarkably small area of overlap even for the cheesiest covers bands (guilty as charged there). Some music has more bass content than others but most has very little content below 80Hz. We are also talking about portable PA often set up in small spaces so our decisions are based upon a balance where practicality and sound quality has to be balanced. Some of us have to transport the PA in a family car, others struggle to lift 20kg tops above their heads or to move a 30kg sub at all. Sometimes you have to play gigs where the PA needs to be discreet and other gigs are in a barn (literally down here in the West Country). I try not to jump to conclusions about what sort of band people play in. Cost is a factor too, you might be better off investing in better tops than spending £500 on a cheap sub or saving your money altogether.

 

If you are playing some sort of pop/rock music indoors to audiences of 20-100 people then you aren't going to need subs and if your tops are good quality active 12's then you can put all your instruments through them quite safely in the sense that they won't break. Towards the top end of that audience size and in bigger rooms subs might add something and also clean up the sound in your tops. If that is what you are trying to do a small sub might be appropriate. The driver in a sub is made differently from the driver in your tops so even a 12" sub will add something. If you are struggling to lift your tops then using small speakers as tops and adding in subs you can wheel in makes a lot of sense. If you just want to be really loud, play huge venues or a style of music that is unusually rich in lower frequencies then you are going to need a bigger PA and at some point the argument for carrying subs becomes pretty strong. There isn't some rule that says you need huge subs for every occasion or every band.

That all makes good sense Phil.

When playing function gigs, our band have been advised that pretty much most function bands augment their tops with a sub. And there's no doubt that the kick drum can really benefit from a sub.

"Try playing any well recorded music through the PA and switch the tops off and you'll find there is almost nothing coming out of the subs even when playing the PA at quite loud volumes."

That is such an interesting observation! What is it about studio engineered music that, in practical terms, it does away with the need for subs and obviously sounds great?

The point about venues is spot on Phil.

Subs in British pubs is often going to be overkill / unnecessary - but can be a nice to have if you get it right.

For larger venues and definitely for outdoors, particularly where there is no wall/floor reinforcement for the bass, it seems they start to become a "must have".  We've very much noticed at the couple of outdoor gigs we've done that the bass has to be set quite loud but then falls at immediate FoH but seems to tail off pretty rapidly - I'm guessing that's to be expected?

In terms of thinking about new tops nope, haha, we're not currently thinking of getting anything else. We're pretty content with the band's RCF 732As and my RCF 912As, which we alternate and is a real treat not for me to have lug the PA to every gig. I may be tempted to upgrade mine to an RCF 932A at some point, but that is well down the pecking order below (i) a better digital desk (maybe the A&H CQ18) and (ii) a sub.

9 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

You don't want to go to 140Hz, that gets into the directionally locatable frequencies, which limits placement options. 80 to 100Hz is the preferred range.

Sure, but wouldn't it also helpfully take a bit more of the bass load off the tops?

I guess it's a bit irrelevant if the X-over is fixed at a lower f? 

Cheers Phil. I'll be dropping the TX from my shortlist then! The TS looks more capable on a number of fronts including a frequency range of up to 140hz which is nicely into the low mids.

Couldn't immediately find anything about the X-over f though?

What are these really useful trolleys you mention? Do they pack away nicely to take up minimal boot space?

alto tx212s subwoofer  On sale at PMT for < £350.  20kg weight is very appealing, but is a single sub delivering 450W RMS going to cut the mustard?

Maybe worth paying the extra and getting something like this (1,200W RMS): Alto Trusonic TS12S Active Powered Subwoofer and figuring out how best to manage handle the additional weight?

9 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Haha, just sent my THIRD ONE IN THE SPACE OF A FEW MONTHS back again...

"Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results" - attributed to Albert Einstein

😂

On 02/08/2024 at 11:59, stewblack said:

Fluorescent? Good shout!

12 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Im still on the fence about getting another. Since i sent my second one back ive brought a Paradriver, BDDI, VTbass and Zoom MS-60B+. All had good points but just not all the right ones for me in one unit, and the high cost of the Tech21 stuff is off putting for one effect. Tempted to even try the Line6 Pod express but that seems to be the less specified of the lot. 

Pretty sure I'll just get another B2-four next week. 

I was thinking about a Pod Express too, but got completely slammed in an 'honest' pretty detailed review, too.

10 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

A killer for keyboards, bass and some kick drums.

Our keys player is banned from using her left hand 😅

@Baloney Balderdash - impressed with you quoting a post of mine from 6 years back! I'll happily admit to not being the same BC'er I was back then! Maybe it is actually possible to grow wiser and not just older? 😅

Agree with all the comments about the benefit of HPF's to eliminate low end crud to improve speaker efficiency, particularly in the subsonic range (<20Hz) and equally also below the low B fundamental at 31Hz (or 41Hz for the low E for 4 string basses).

My key learning point, with very helpful input from fellow BC'er @ratman, who is both a pro bass player and a capable sound engineer, and who kindly came along to one of our gigs recently, is to think of the business end of the bass frequency range as being up to 200Hz.

Our analogue desk has a built in HPF with cut-off kicking in at 100Hz - engaging that for the bass left the sound feeling thin and lacking weight, so I've gone instead for a pedal setting at 50Hz with a 12dB/oct cut but then adding a 3dB boost at 140Hz in the "low mids". (Fwiw I've personally found it unhelpful to think of 120hz+ as "mids" because it's very much in the bass frequency range and mids go so much higher! Maybe time to reclaim this end of the spectrum as "bass", haha!)

Bingo, the bass is now 'back' adding that proverbial 'heft' that had been lacking.

So we are currently HPF'ing everything on the desk other than the bass and kick drum, and applying a separate HPF at 50Hz to just the bass.