Al Krow

26 minutes ago, itu said:

If I start fiddling with anything irrelevant over sound, I need to stop gigging. 

 

I use whichever bass is suitable for the gig. It may be possible a meteor destroys my bass (and me), but every instrument is meant for playing. 

Question for everyone:

Is a bass only "properly played " at a gig? If you choose to make music on a bass at home is that not "playing" it? Why would that be true for a bass but not a piano?

Doesn't that kinda assume that a bass player can only ever play his instrument as part of a live band? What if you're not in a band?

For me, there's a false hierarchy to say that playing an instrument in one setting (e.g. a gig) is more righteous than playing it another (e.g. at home). I think it's possible to get enormous pleasure from an instrument wherever it's played.

I've got a particular bass that seems to be my goto for gigging these days - it's a decently high-end bass (Elrick) which I bought a while back from @Sibob of this parish and am very much still loving it. It now has a few knocks to testify to the very many gigs it's faithfully done for me.

I do have one bass that I would hesitate to take out to a pub gig specifically, as that was a 'treat' bass and I suspect I'd be quite upset if it got damaged. Part of the joy of that bass, for me, is the craftsmanship that went into making it and I think it's possible to appreciate the design and craftsmanship in an instrument, as well as other objects in life, that can make it be worth something more than being just 'a tool', albeit an excellent one, to get a job done. 

The rest of my basses yes, absolutely, would be happy to gig them at pubs as well as function venues. 

6 minutes ago, Mickeyboro said:

We can’t really use the stick, so what's the carrot?🥕 

Great question! Maybe turn that one around - what would make you want to join a band and really commit to it and to work hard at keeping your place in it?

It's going to vary for everyone, but I suspect it will include some or all of the following?

• Regular decently paid gigs (covers band)
• Love the music that the band is playing / get a say in song choices
• Talented musicians to work with 
• Fun crew who you enjoy hanging out with
• Good band atmosphere and minimal drama
• Feeling valued
• An opportunity to be creative (maybe more for original bands?)
• An opportunity to grow and develop as a musician

16 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

having kinda done that... the key is working out what things work best in a HX stomp or equivalent and what doesn't. 

And then what doesn't but you can accept the compromise. 

Yup! Use the multifx for everything it does really well or well at least well enough e.g. modulation - all types (chorus, flanger, phaser, delay etc.), dirt, compression (if you're a fan), tuner and then buy a dedicated pedal or two to fill any gaps. In my case, that's now down to multifx + synth for my little gigging board. Nice and compact and as @Jack has spotted, actually not too bruising on the wallet, particularly if you buy used.

2 hours ago, David Morison said:

 

Yeah, it's a little counter-intuitive, for sure.

 

Your last line has it right - basically, all of the input channels feeding each mix can be pre-fade, but as the FX come post fade before they reach the IEM mix, they would remain post fade.

So, if you turned up the vox in the main mix, the level of the dry vox would remain the same in the IEM, but the level of the vocal reverb would still increase in the IEM.

Given that you hopefully don't need to make massive adjustments to vocal levels once the show is underway, and that the preferred reverb level is hopefully several dB lower than the dry vocal level in the first place this is unlikely to be a deal breaker, but it's an easily overlooked quirk that's worth being aware of.

 

HTH,

D.

 

That sounds like a best of both worlds scenario, thanks!

So to summarise:

By switching to pre-fade setting for aux out:

(i) singers will get consistent IEM volumes irrespective of what's going on with FoH volumes / adjustments;

(ii) singers will still get fx (reverb) in their IEMs, but based on FoH volumes, as fx is applied to the post-fade signal.

Is that a fair summary?

Not sure this "made the original" by Stevie W, but great cover right?

45 minutes ago, David Morison said:

Hi Al,

That's not quite the full picture re reverb in the monitor sends.

 

You're right the send to the reverb unit will be post fade - that's because we generally want the relative level of reverb & dry signal to stay the same when we adjust the fader for the main mix.

However, each monitor output can still be set to pre-fade - so normal input signals will stay at the same level even when the main mix is adjusted.

 

This does throw up the slight complication that the reverb that is being sent to the monitor will still be post fade, as that is where the FX unit is getting its signal in the first place, so if any big changes to the vox levels are made in the main mix, those will result in the amount of reverb in the monitor send changing too.

Hi David,

Thanks for this. I didn't quite follow your final para - grateful if you could clarify for me:

If the singers are getting the pre fade signal in their IEMs (which as we have said will help give them a constant IEM level independent of any adjustments we make to FoH levels), but the fx/reverb is only being applied at the post fade stage, then won't the reverb be present in just the FoH and not in the IEMs at all if we set it to pre fade?

If I have this wrong and the reverb will still be heard in the IEMs, albeit at post levels, when the IEMs are set to pre fade, this should actually be a decent compromise!

6 hours ago, David Morison said:

If you're only using one mixer, then the faders' main function is to control the main mix (desks with fader flip notwithstanding).

As we usually don't want out monitor mix changing every time we tweak the FOH mix, pre-fade is the default for monitor sends.

If you don't have a dedicated FOH engineer, and you rely on your monitors to get an idea of what the main mix is sounding like, then you might be better with post fade.

6 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Pre fader every time for me. As David says you don't want anything you do to FOH adjusting someone else's monitor mix, generally you want a clean feed to monitors anyway. A lot of singers are put off by delay or excessive reverb even when it sounds really good out front. Most musicians are happy with a clean version of what they are doing anyway.

 

As I said above I keep the settings on the monitor the same as front of house and then globally eq the monitors to match the FOH sound as best I can. I'd also advise against tweaking the main mix during gigs if you are mixing from on-stage unless there is something seriously wrong, a mic going down or a guitar swap forced by a broken string and the like. You've pretty much no idea what the audience are hearing so are much more lkely to make the sound worse not better if you tweak in the basis of the on-stage sound. I use a radio connection for my bass though so I can wander out mid song in an emergency. It doesn't look very professional though IMO 

Great advice gents.

Pre fade definitely the way forward!

Like you Phil, I have wireless on my bass and will wander into the audience on a couple of songs to listen to the FoH mix (and I do that anyway for a few numbers as we find the audience really enjoys the interaction!)

Our singers do like a bit of reverb in their in ears - I guess I should investigate whether a post fx / pre fade set up is possible on our A&H CQs as that would seem ideal for the singers...

Post script:

Apparently fx is post fader on the CQs, so looks like the singers will need the post fader option if they want reverb in their IEMs.

What do most of you guys do in terms of sending the various inputs on the desk to your personal aux output mixes in terms of being "pre fader" or "post fader"?

1 minute ago, Reggaebass said:

Another one bites the dust must be up there somewhere, soon as you hear the first 3 notes you know what it is, apologies if it’s already been mentioned 

 

Great bass line, although arguably a derivative of Chic Good Times?!

And I know it's way too soon to be thinking about Xmas! But if you want a change from the usual fare, the bass line on this one is arguably the best of any Xmas song?

Gotta be one of the more iconic bass lines! (Apologies to @itu who I've just seen already gave this a mention!) But definitely a fun one to play and these guys do a decent cover.

30 years to the month since her iconic album came out! Great song and tbf not defined by the bass line, but what a great bass line by Flea!!

Managed to source a second very good condition used RCF 932A to add to the B-stock one I bought a little while back. Looking forward to hearing the improvement in vox and guitar sound from the 3" voice coil / larger 1.4" compression driver on the 932A vs the 1.75" voice coil / 1" compression driver of the 912A at our forthcoming gigs!

I'll probably hold onto my existing 912As for a  while, to provide a back-up PA and also enable us to be at two places at once, which does occasionally happen!

@Raj_Shredder That is quite the vinyl record collection you have!

I think the key limitation here is that the Xvive U4 that Ian is using is mono not stereo?

41 minutes ago, lee650 said:

Ive only just became aware of this (and spent 30 mins sobbing afterward) a few members im close too will know that after 22 years of marriage my wife asked for a divorce.

 

At the risk of oversharing. For many years ive struggled with (for a long time undiagnosed) carpal tunnel in both wrists, which at times has hampered my playing. This is on the mend, but among other things has taken a toll.

 

Im devastated, but ive done a lot of thinking and looking back, it cant go on

 

Ive been harming myself mentally, and suppressed anger and frustration and sadness until it warped me into something im not, and caused her to fall out of love with me

ive numbed the pain with Alcohol which has affected my physical health.

 

She knew what was happening to me, but dealt with it by keeping busy with other things and remained focused on creating a life for herself that didnt include me, in time we were more roommates than a husband and wife. So sad, we had a beautiful relationship, and it withered and died and we both let it happen! heartbreaking, truly heartbreaking

 

Ill always love her,she was my best friend, soulmate and the love of my life. Right now im still full of anger and resentment and need to try and let it all go and forgive, because ive tortured myself and her for years 

 

If this looks at all familiar i beg you COMMUNICATE, share your feelings and find the person you love. Im not courting sympathy or even attention, but please hug your partner and love them fiercely and with all of your heart.

 

Ive been a nember of this forum since 2007 and it has been part of my everyday life in all that time. Ive made friends for life and brothers id never had, and many many times been a small light in my darkness. I cant thank you all enough for this, im very moved and grateful to have so many wonderful people in my lif

 

Im going to move out and get a flat with the shirt on my back and a couple of basses, at 51 my life parallels when i left Newcastle at 19 

 

Im on the cusp of a new start

My focus will be on healing myself phyisically and mentally, i plan to throw myself into the thing thats always defined me , Music!!

 

Time to forgive and heal

  

Sending love mate. We're here for you if you ever need anything x

$1,800 for the the Stadium Floor, so maybe £1,750 over here?

vs £1,450 for the Quad Cortex

But it does seem like quite a step up from Quad Cortex, which is going some?

I guess the context for a guitarist is a Mesa Boogie Mark VII 1x12 Combo Valve Amp would set you back £4,200

As some of us maybe aware, Line 6 originally announced Helix on 11 June 2015 i.e. today is the 10th anniversary.

@Paddy777 spotted that there's a livestream at 7pm and kindly posted the link and comment below 👇 which I've taken the liberty of pulling across from another thread: 

"That’s what the livestream is “in aid of” or that’s the justification of it, but they’ve really pulled the big guns out - they’ve invited loads of guitar influencers to Line6HQ for it and really built it up. The speculation is that they’ll announce Helix firmware 4.0 which will have NAM compatibility but that could be wishful thinking or completely unfounded - they might even announce or give a teaser for next gen Helix 2.0 but the counter to that is that the current Helix software is only 18 months old and so I’m leaning towards the former, but I haven’t got a clue"

Oh that is interesting news re. there being a 'big announcement' tomorrow.

Because Line 6 announced Helix on 11 June 2015 i.e. tomorrow is the 10th anniversary of Helix!

Pleasure to give something back to Lee. Thanks for organising this Andy x

+1 for Nux 5.8 GHz.

Been using them regularly on gigs (100+) for the past couple of years, and have a worked a treat. Previously had the Boss WL-20s which were great sonically, but I was often getting drop-outs with them in the more crowded 2.4 GHz space particularly following a switch by a couple of us in the band to wireless IEMs.

Hi Phil, the ZARs are a little bulkier - see pic: The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread - Page 53 

You'll read that a few others also upgraded to the ZARs following my tip-off, and generally found the move positive (or at worst neutral):

"I have to say that since upgrading to the KZ ZAR's, I find the listening experience altogether more enjoyable." - acidbass

"I did gigs the last two Saturdays with them and on those gigs, specifically the last gig, my in ear sound was the best I have had. In fact it was the best on stage sound I have had full stop and as a result I felt I played better because I was so into the sound I was getting." - Woody

Hi Ian,

TLDR: recommend upgrading your IEMs. Plenty of options: in my case I've found KZ ZARs work very well and at around £50 from Ali Express they're excellent value. Combine with a decent preamp pedal and a tailored mix from your desk and you'll be good to go!

The desk we both use (A&H CQ18T) has very decent preamps and the quality of sound was a step up from our Soundcraft MTK12 which isn't bad, by any means. We are also both using Xvive U4s (which btw are purely mono, so not sure your cunning plan for stereo is going to succeed!)

My first IEMs were also Shure 215s. I'd say they were ok (say = 4/10). I subsequently upgraded to Shure 315s (= 5/10).

Having read through the first 300 posts (!) on the IEM bible thread, I got some KZ ZS10s which seemed to be the BC go to value model at the time. The KZs with their multi-drivers were a definite step up in articulation and clarity over the Shures (= 6.5/10), but a little harsh in the treble and I found them a little wearing, and I was half tempted to give up on IEMs at that point.

I then came across KZ ZARs IEMs, which are double the price of the ZS10s (but still amazing value at £50 on Ali Express), but have been worth every penny for me. Fuller more rounded response (= 8/10).

The CQ18T also allows each of us to have tailored mixes, and I've found the combination of a decent preamp pedal and tailored mix from the desk (with the bass guitar boosted in my personal mix) has made IEMs work very well for me.

Hope that helps!

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

Like @Al Krow I take a pragmatic approach. Go Your Own Way is a good example. There are at least three guitar parts in the intro and I've played with drummers and guitarists that struggle with the intro. I've variously started the song playing one of the rhythm guitar parts on Bass and I've also played it properly. It's got that lovely run at the end and initially I played the notes all 'wrong' but with the rhythm and feel of the original and nothing that would clash with the guitarists solo. Later I went back and learned it properly but I doubt a single band member noticed and the audience not at all. It's great to sometimes learn things note for note and you learn loads by doing it but criticising people by describing it a lazy isn't seeing the bigger picture IMO

5 hours ago, Doctor J said:

I recall a similar major/minor line issue at a Stone Roses tribute many years ago. The bassist in question constantly played one passing note of the chorus of She Bangs The Drums one fret from where it should have been. Most people didn't notice but, to me, it came across as half-arsed. If you're charging money, and it's as hard to get it wrong as it is to get it right, it's just laziness not to get it right, regardless of whether anyone but you notices or not.

That's generously put Phil, thank you. But I think Doc J is also correct: sometimes it's a case of us being content to play something that "just works" rather than putting the time and effort to learn something trickier but ultimately truer to the what the original band intended, and frankly often just a much better bassline than the "flattened" / simplified version I've certainly been guilty of settling for! 

I'm not going to deny that I loved the appreciative smile from a pro guitarist who was depping for us for a function gig last year when he heard me playing the correct bassline on Go Your Own Way. And yes a few members of the audience do notice too!