Al Krow

Pleasure to give something back to Lee. Thanks for organising this Andy x

+1 for Nux 5.8 GHz.

Been using them regularly on gigs (100+) for the past couple of years, and have a worked a treat. Previously had the Boss WL-20s which were great sonically, but I was often getting drop-outs with them in the more crowded 2.4 GHz space particularly following a switch by a couple of us in the band to wireless IEMs.

Hi Phil, the ZARs are a little bulkier - see pic: The IEM (in ear monitors) Bible thread - Page 53 

You'll read that a few others also upgraded to the ZARs following my tip-off, and generally found the move positive (or at worst neutral):

"I have to say that since upgrading to the KZ ZAR's, I find the listening experience altogether more enjoyable." - acidbass

"I did gigs the last two Saturdays with them and on those gigs, specifically the last gig, my in ear sound was the best I have had. In fact it was the best on stage sound I have had full stop and as a result I felt I played better because I was so into the sound I was getting." - Woody

Hi Ian,

TLDR: recommend upgrading your IEMs. Plenty of options: in my case I've found KZ ZARs work very well and at around £50 from Ali Express they're excellent value. Combine with a decent preamp pedal and a tailored mix from your desk and you'll be good to go!

The desk we both use (A&H CQ18T) has very decent preamps and the quality of sound was a step up from our Soundcraft MTK12 which isn't bad, by any means. We are also both using Xvive U4s (which btw are purely mono, so not sure your cunning plan for stereo is going to succeed!)

My first IEMs were also Shure 215s. I'd say they were ok (say = 4/10). I subsequently upgraded to Shure 315s (= 5/10).

Having read through the first 300 posts (!) on the IEM bible thread, I got some KZ ZS10s which seemed to be the BC go to value model at the time. The KZs with their multi-drivers were a definite step up in articulation and clarity over the Shures (= 6.5/10), but a little harsh in the treble and I found them a little wearing, and I was half tempted to give up on IEMs at that point.

I then came across KZ ZARs IEMs, which are double the price of the ZS10s (but still amazing value at £50 on Ali Express), but have been worth every penny for me. Fuller more rounded response (= 8/10).

The CQ18T also allows each of us to have tailored mixes, and I've found the combination of a decent preamp pedal and tailored mix from the desk (with the bass guitar boosted in my personal mix) has made IEMs work very well for me.

Hope that helps!

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

Like @Al Krow I take a pragmatic approach. Go Your Own Way is a good example. There are at least three guitar parts in the intro and I've played with drummers and guitarists that struggle with the intro. I've variously started the song playing one of the rhythm guitar parts on Bass and I've also played it properly. It's got that lovely run at the end and initially I played the notes all 'wrong' but with the rhythm and feel of the original and nothing that would clash with the guitarists solo. Later I went back and learned it properly but I doubt a single band member noticed and the audience not at all. It's great to sometimes learn things note for note and you learn loads by doing it but criticising people by describing it a lazy isn't seeing the bigger picture IMO

5 hours ago, Doctor J said:

I recall a similar major/minor line issue at a Stone Roses tribute many years ago. The bassist in question constantly played one passing note of the chorus of She Bangs The Drums one fret from where it should have been. Most people didn't notice but, to me, it came across as half-arsed. If you're charging money, and it's as hard to get it wrong as it is to get it right, it's just laziness not to get it right, regardless of whether anyone but you notices or not.

That's generously put Phil, thank you. But I think Doc J is also correct: sometimes it's a case of us being content to play something that "just works" rather than putting the time and effort to learn something trickier but ultimately truer to the what the original band intended, and frankly often just a much better bassline than the "flattened" / simplified version I've certainly been guilty of settling for! 

I'm not going to deny that I loved the appreciative smile from a pro guitarist who was depping for us for a function gig last year when he heard me playing the correct bassline on Go Your Own Way. And yes a few members of the audience do notice too!

23 hours ago, PaulFenderJazz said:

I was thinking of going a similar route, as I’m also looking to get a back line solution for playing with a band again, but am also wanting a PA solution for potential solo acoustic guitar/singer performances and I’d rather not duplicate gear. Would a pedal board preamp work straight into an active PA speaker as a solution for bass? TIA

Just seen you're looking at something for vocals also and want to avoid gear duplication...in which case the single PA top / FRFR option may well be the better option for you if you're looking for something that covers all the bases (excuse the pun!)

Do you have PA already? If not, there's a whole separate rabbit hole for you to dive into e.g. Compact budget PA set-up to put bass through (without back-line) - I ended up ditching my backline for a pair of RCF 912As, but there's plenty of other options! And many of those PA speakers have been widely used as FRFR speakers by BC'ers: the RCF 732A seems to be a popular option and would handle vox better than my 912As due to better mid range horns.

1 hour ago, PaulFenderJazz said:

A good comparison: the Markbass CMD 121P is a very good benchmark in my view

Yes, and the Fender Rumble 500 is also much loved by BC'ers too!

We put our full band through a pair of RCF 912As, without needing a sub, and they provide us with a very decent bass response.

A single 912A should therefore be able to very comfortably handle bass if you want to use it as a 'FRFR' powered speaker, and will cost a fraction of the price many of the more traditional separate amp & cab set ups that many BC'ers use. But perhaps the better comparison is with something like a Markbass CMD 121P combo, in which case the price differential is not so large, particularly if you are comparing used prices.

Kinda reminds me of discussions I've had with bandmates and deps around playing a part that fits the song vs playing the bass line / guitar riff / drum pattern of the song.

Must admit I really appreciate working with drummers who include the fills and nuances of particular songs we cover vs simply bashing out a rhythm and tempo that fits the song. Maybe that's equivalent to us just playing the root notes?

Sure it can be "fun" to keep things simple, and horses for courses, if that is all we want to be doing with our music - getting out and gigging can be massively fulfilling in itself! But equally if we don't have to settle for less, then why not aim to be the best musicians we can? And I'm saying that knowing I've got a very long way to go...  

1 hour ago, Terry M. said:

I'm not disagreeing with any of this (apart from maybe what the audience notices) but there's also a ton of enjoyment to be had reworking basslines (entire songs even) and putting an individual stamp on it and making it your own.

For sure! Now these guys do "making it their own" brilliantly!

10 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Al. You left out the most iconic bit of that song? How and why did you come to that decision? Not judging, just curious.

Not a decision as such. Many years back when I first started playing it with a previous covers band, we were struggling to get tight on coming in together at the start with acoustic guitar coming in on the up beat ahead of everyone else, so that's what we focussed on sorting. The simplified bass part I played fitted, was certainly "good enough" in terms of audience reception to our song - it was always about the guitar solo at the end for them - and no one said anything. That changed when the singer in my current band last year mentioned that she'd heard a really sweet bass riff on that song. It did then actually take a fair bit of effort to unlearn the "wrong" bass line!

I think it's only since I've been working with a semi-pro crew that I've been paying closer attention to some of the actual bass lines and realising just how much better many of them were than the simplified versions I'd been playing! Another easy example would be Killers "Somebody told me" - for me that loses a lot when the bass line is flattened, which I've often heard. With that one, I made sure to learn that one properly from the off! 

Sometimes it's only the band who notice their bandmates getting it right, but their smile in recognition is for me reward in itself. Often the audience actually also does notice, without necessarily fully knowing why?

Sure we've all "flattened" / simplified bass lines to get them good enough for a gig, maybe due to a lack of time or perhaps technical ability and never return to work on them further. But when they are done properly they can often give a song a lift.

A simple example: the iconic riff in John McVie's Go your own way bassline - I'd been guilty of leaving that out for far too long and playing sonething that fitted. But playing McVie's line as he intended it, has definitely added something to both the band sound and my enjoyment of playing that song.

So, if you want to invest the time in nailing a bass line, Dave, go for it mate!

Tricky situation Phil!

I know of one band who are 'talented hobbyists' rather than semi-pros, with other sources of income, and who are happy to take home less each from gigs so that their dep bass player, who is a pro and lives off his performance income, can get a decent fee. They end up with an excellent bass player who is happy to commit and the rest of the band enjoy the gigs much more as a result

Tangentially, I've heard of a band leader not personally taking any payment from gigs in order to be competitive on pricing, so the rest of the band got a decent fee per gig, and building up a roster of venues. The band then put up prices once they had got themselves established.

I guess we've been fortunate in not needing to do either of the above, but there's a certain logic to the first and I do have admiration for the approach taken in the second! They may give you a sticking plaster solution till you find your permanent band member. Good luck!

10 hours ago, nilebodgers said:

it needs a bit of care, 120Hz should be fine, but if you go higher and start to get low male vocal in the subs things can start to sound a bit strange.

Interesting point which I'd not really given any thought to: a low male can often get comfortably down to a b1 = 61 Hz.

My ignorance, but why would it matter if that was being handled by the sub(s) rather than the tops?

A first review on bass, looking at just the presets...

Maybe just a couple on there that I might be tempted to use e.g. 49 T-Wah, but I suspect the value-add, as with many multis is going to be from creating our own patches.

@Pirellithecat - question for: do you think not finding a bass tone that you are happy with could potentially be down to too much low end in some of the more cramped venues you're playing in?

24 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said:

At the risk of "stuck-record-ness"  The sub makes so much difference to the sound - much greater than upgrading from RCF 710's to 932's!   
A personal hearing "thing" probably, but I find the tops excellent, in comparison to eg Mackie 450's ......... so much clearer ...... BUT, with a very strong female vocalist (and a dreadful sound guy -me).  I find that the RCF upper mid/treble is a tad "shrill" - which is why I upgraded in the first place.   Hopefully I can get this sorted with the CQ18T ........... 

22 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said:

I'd love to try this, but the venues we play have so little space usually there isn't any "centre"! to spare!! 🙄🤣

I can appreciate that the subs will make a big difference, particularly at outdoor gigs which is where we notice the lack, but we do precious few of those. But, as you say, space can be limited at a lot of indoor, certainly pub, gigs and we do seem to manage to get a pretty decent low-end with our more humble 912As.

51 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said:

Outdoor Gig Saturday. 
  

 

My glacially slow progress to find a bass tone that I'm happy with both on stage and front of house continues ......... 
Spent several hours prior to gig playing bass outside via my PA plus Bass rig, just to get the FOH tone sorted.    Took a fair amount of time!!!  And it didn't rain! 
Took the set up to the Gig, and was happy enough.   Quiet on Stage, Loud enough out front, NO boominess (possibly because it was outside??) . 
Had a few sorties into the audience whilst playing and was surprised!!  
The combined Kick Drum /Bass via the PA was really good .... punchy as I've ever heard it.  And the balance was great!  
We'll see how we get on in a indoor venue next weekend!!!  

The other major difference was that the stage volume was much lower ......... so I'm going to persist with gradually reducing on stage-bass levels and putting it via monitors for the members of the  band who notice and would like more bass. 

Next steps are;
1) Custom-fit IEM's
2) Deploy my new Mixer (CQ 18T) live, so that I have a dedicated monitor mix,
3) Buy a Helix/Zoom B6, and if all works well,
4) Downsize my bass cab (to, in all probability, a LfSys Monaco.)
    
And all this will probably change after next weekend's Gig 🙄

PS  I've followed with interest the debate about having 1 or 2 subs, and was in the 1 Sub supporters club.   However,  The tonal balance, with one sub under one PA top, is noticeably different on the sub side of the stage, from the audience point of view.   MUCH "better", fuller/full spectrum/less bright and just "nicer".  (RCF 932's over a single RCF 705 mk II).  Will try Sub centrally when I get the opportunity .... but the 2 sub solution is tempting ........  

Impressive set up!

Welcome to the A&H CQ18T club!

I'll be hoping to join you in the RCF 932A club at some point soon - I think our singers deserve better than the more budget 912As we currently have, to bring out their vocals. 

But as for RCF 705 subs and custom IEMs...you've left us for dust!

2 hours ago, SumOne said:

I got an SR305E in part exchange to have as a relatively light/small/cheap backup. Gotta say though, after doing a thorough setup (which it really needed) there now isn't much difference between this and basses I've owned worth £1k extra.

 

 

 

16.5mm spacing is a bit tight for me, can live with it though. The only thing I'm really not a fan of is no passive mode, feels risky potentially doing a gig and finding out half way through that the battery has died. 

Nice!

The SR Premium range have an active / passive switch, but will set you back a fair bit more...as would my Spector EuroLX which doesn't have an active passive switch, but does have a very accessible battery socket to compensate (which I think all the Ibby ranges will also have). Guess just need to add "check battery" to the pre gig routine!

On 28/05/2025 at 20:43, glassmoon said:

Here is a question... In all your many experiences and opinions, which IEMs have the best bass response. Buuuut, don't cost the earth. Ultimate Ears would be incredible, but they're so darned expensive. 

 

My thanks in advance 

KZ ZARs tick all the boxes for me (prefer to my Shures and KZ ZS10s).

Very competitively priced via Ali Express.

Just leaving this here! Super compact and just £80 for a multifx, amp modeller and IR loader.

22 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

Why say you're sorry? Please stop clutching your pearls and open your eyes.

 

Perhaps you are uncomfortable about the fact that we in the prosperous West enjoy cheap manufactured goods thanks to the fact that many people (who are often very young) in low wage economies work long hours for little pay, often in unregulated workplaces that boast few safety precautions or protection for workers. There's nothing bigoted (note single 't') about pointing that out.

 

I put my money where my mouth is and try not to buy things that are made in such places. It may cost me more, but the consolation is that I'm not enabling exploitation or helping to fund the export of jobs to low wage economies. No doubt you'll tell me I'm fortunate to be able to afford my scruples.

I'm sure none of us are keen on encouraging child labour exploitation. But you disrespect so many nations and their hard working citizens by making such generalisations.

Where exactly are "these places" in the "Far East" you refer to where children are working 7 days a week for 12 hours a day, making high tech bass PA equipment that we consume here in the West?

Which Western bass equipment manufacturers are you aware of who are importing such kit without looking at the working conditions of the factories making the products they import? It would be good to know - I'm sure we would all benefit from the research you have done on this.

35 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

This. Despite marketing claims, no manufacturer can offer more at a given price point than another, assuming they are all operating in the same economic environment. Obvs, things produced in high wage economies - Europe, the US, etc - will have incur higher labour costs than those made in the Far East by children working 12 hour days 7 days a week, but you get my 

I'm sorry that is such an offensive, bigotted post. Exactly which far eastern economies are you referring to?

Welcome!

The Zoom B1-4 is a wonderfully good value piece of kit - this thread may be of interest to you: Zoom B1-4 & B3N - Effects patch ideas and tips - Effects - Basschat

After two very late night finishes on Thursday and Friday at a couple of our pub residencies and back home in the small hours, which included having to deal with one of the venues that had hitherto supplied the drum kit not having one anymore, but not bothering to inform us(!), we had a real treat Sunday morning as the course band for the Hackney half-marathon for our fourth year.

8am arrive to set up and then 25,000 runners streaming passed over 2 hours which we played solidly without a break - so a bit of a marathon for us too! Made doubly special for me by having my daughter participating as a runner again this year. A complete blast and a great atmosphere!

A little insta clip here to give you more of a feel for the event.