72deluxe

I'd say it is both - I have different basses and they sound different, even played through the same amp with the same settings. So the woods of the bass make a difference (maple is bright, for example). But the way you play is also a large factor. I have a problem where the first finger on my right hand sound significantly brighter than my index finger, so depending on which finger I start a bar on it'll sound aggressive or warm. I think my first finger is more calloused Additionally, the left hand makes a difference. This is particularly apparent when you play fretless or double bass, where the flatness of your hand against the fretboard will make a warm round sound but if you play with fingertips it'll be a thinner sound. So it's both really. Get some good gear and play it flat to begin with I suppose. I realise I don't really use the EQ very much, even on basses with preamps in them!

Hi everyone I just wanted to say thanks again for the meetup, it was great fun as usual. The cakes and biscuits were really delicious but I had to refrain from gorging myself on them. Lovely orangey chocolate cake. It was great to try out such a wide range of lovely gear, and also to see the performance of some tiny cabs. It makes me think I should sell mine and get something smaller but that will involve saving up. The GK amp and cab seems plenty powerful enough for all the stuff I play; very informative, thanks! Thanks GrammeFriday for letting me play your MTD again and that lovely aguilar rig. Great playing as usual. Hope your back copes with those incredibly lightweight cabs! It was great to see the gear made by Jez/Jabba (those fret markers are clever), and the quality of your builds; you should sell those basses or give away free endorsements. I politely volunteer. And also Tom's COG effects - that suboctaver combined with fuzz/distortion was lots of fun, sorry for the noise I put through them. Really great. Whose Eden rig was that? I didn't get your name. Very kind to let us abuse it, lovely rig. Great to see faces from last year and try out that range of Warwicks, Norris' Rickenbacker (sorry I said that word on this forum) I didn't get to say hello to the two mega slappers (should I rephrase that???) - LeeMan? And the other machine-gun-triplet in an orange hoody? Sorry I didn't say hello to you both. I was scared and intimidated by the rate of clicks and pops. I was impressed how the volume was kept mostly under control and for the bounteous delights on offer for the raffle. I think that Entwistle book should have included a complimentary Buzzard bass.... Thanks again, greatly enjoyed it so thanks for arranging it!

Definitely not a Warwick. They're right about the price though if it was a Warwick - sadly, they appear to depreciate rapidly!

Very informative Al, thanks. I didn't watch the video but I will later. (There's a tracking URL on it though - not sure if that was deliberate?) So, is the X32 > Pro6 (the one with black buttons, not the white Behringer ones)? It's certainly more portable! And price-conscious / affordable. It's probably much better than the DDX3216 I had, but in fairness that really was a bargain, particularly when coupled with a capable ADAT recorder and the ADAT option card(s). Is the Kidderminster facility just a repair house now though? Did all the engineers relocate to Manchester? I wonder if the P-bass copies have been using different woods or something? I'm not really knowledgeable about it. I did have a Fender Jazz which was lovely but never did try a copy / clone / "upgrade" of one. Edit: I agree with dincz's rant on power ratings!

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1430479597' post='2761801'] It's inevitable as the weather gets warmer. [/quote] I said "sweatING" not "sweatY"...... I didn't say "I bet they've got sweaty conkers" hahaha

One minute of transient is how they test them for ratings really - they shove sine waves into them, which really is entirely a non-real-world test. Unless Pink Floyd are playing or something..... sine waves everywhere??? A proper test would be to run them for about 3 hours and see how they get on (as they'll warm up, fans will need to spin up, ambient temperature changes, chokes get hot etc.). After all, a real-world gig has to last for hours and hours and it'll be under load during that time. As you say though, the transients are transient. Bass drums and low end thumps require a lot of power but if you're feeding a line-array of speakers and driving subs on another channel of the amp, you need to be able to cope and not have the line array dipping in volume when the subs are driving. That's why you probably won't see iNukes being used in big venues. But for the money, happy days! My ignorance of amplifiers is higher than yours. I only know that big gulps of power (ie, bass drums, thumps, low bass notes) require capacitor banks to provide power to drive the speakers. The capacitors need topping up, which will stress the power supply and take time to recharge (although not much, depends on the PSU). So the more capacitors you have the more power you have on instant demand and the more power you can instantly provide before requiring a top-up. Therefore, more capacitors = more instant power = better. If you can't keep up with the gulps being taken, then output power will suffer as you attempt to recharge the capacitors whilst they're being gulped from. EDIT: Someone with more knowledge, please feel free to correct me! The price difference for the Behringer products is due to the difference in the number of components, as well as the difference in quality of the components. If the aim was to sell many products, then cheaper components don't matter that much but if the aim was to sound the best you possibly can, box-shifting isn't the target. I think LAB are not interested in box-shifting. It would be good if the great technology made its way down to us paupers so we can buy incredible products at knock-down price, but I wonder if it'll go the other way - the higher end products will be modified to use cheaper products for better profit margin. I think this is what they did with the faders on Midas consoles, which is why the faders are repeatedly highlighted as being really really really reliable on the M32 page (to instil confidence - "we've redesigned it using cheaper components, but it's just as good! Honest!"). Let's hope the floating rail of LAB makes it into the iNuke PLM3000 Pro DSP.... :-) I think a concern for moving all production to China is the scope for clones. I worked at a company where they copied a product (excellently, I might add), including the box the item came in! Internally, it was different and used cheaper components, but to the consumer it would be the same, and to the dodgy salesman, he could get a bigger markup for a cheaper product as he would sell it for the original price. Or slightly less than the official distributors, meaning the distributors lost out. I am sure the distributors of TC, Tannoy and LAB are sweating conkers at the moment, fearing loss of income if production is moved. It looks like the audio industry is now made of megagroups - Music Group, Fender, Gibson, Yamaha. All massive.

Interesting stats for the iNuke, thanks! Power ratings for amplifiers are "interesting" anyway, as some RMS ratings do not actually mean "all day long", they mean RMS "for a really short time depending on the input frequency before the rails collapse", which is not RMS. So it's a daft numbers game with amplifiers. Look at how LAB measure their power ratings for their PLM and you'll be scratching your head. I only meant the differences between Lab.Gruppen and the Behringer amps is significant - if you take the lid off a PLM2000 (20kW amp?) you'll realise there is zero space mainly due to all the capacitors and copper heatsinks required for getting heat out. They do clever things with their power rail too (but it collapses for high frequencies) - they have a patent on this rail design so it would be interesting to see if it gets incorporated into Behringer's products... You'll struggle to find a photo of inside a PLM2000 but I have one I took somewhere - I'll see if I can find it. Observe the capacitor banks in this (iNuke): [url="http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/attachments/subwoofer-amps-high-pass-filters/33534d1321577980-behringer-inuke-nu1000-amp-amplifier-fan-swap-how-w-pics-2011-11-17_17-25-22_855xxxx.jpg"]http://www.hometheat...-22_855xxxx.jpg[/url] It won't kick out much power for long with that lack of storage, surely? If it's putting out bass for extended frequencies, they'll get depleted and then it's down to the power supply to cope. Compare that even to a Powersoft amp and observe Powersoft's neat arrangement of many capacitor banks: [url="http://www.zaj.hu/keptar/large/dsc02852.jpg"]http://www.zaj.hu/ke...ge/dsc02852.jpg[/url] That's the only observation I had on it really, that the market placements between the brands is [u]significantly[/u] different. Behringer do make some alright stuff and for the home musician and semipro it is great, you really couldn't even build something yourself that cheap. (I couldn't - can't even solder competently). But bass amplifiers for us bassists are not really amplifiers for sound reinforcement or live sound - it's just a different market segment. You won't see them getting used for festivals or gigs etc., they'll all be d&b amps, Powersoft, Crown, Lab.Gruppen etc. etc. I wonder if it would likely be safer just to keep the different corporations separate and let them continue as is instead of taking the highend technology and putting it into the lower end products - if they do, why would you want to spend significantly more buying the high-end product? It would be devalued. Fiat technically own Ferrari but if they start releasing Fiat's with Ferrari badges on, nobody would believe that this new "Ferrari" was a Ferrari - it's just rebranded Fiat. They've kept the two brands separate and each maintains its own value. You don't buy a Fiat and believe you're getting a Ferrari. If they do otherwise, it'd be a bit like the Porsche 914 and the VW equivalent - the Porsche sold poorly because everybody said "It' a VW...." and ordinary VW buyers would not be tempted, as they'd say "It's not a REAL Porsche...." The Chinese workforce changes every 6 months but that's apparently normal practice. I have a set of Behringer Truth 2031A (massive and strong, you could support your car on them, one amplifier keeps turning itself off though sadly) and they came with calibration certificates. But the test for speakers within the factory is to put a voltage across the terminals and see if the speaker makes a BOOOOOOOOOP sound. That's the test for QC and calibration haha Different market segments, that's all. Let's see if they keep them separate. EDIT: I just wanted to say that I'm not trying to put Behringer down at all - I have stuff by them and some of it is great. I was mainly making the point that the two segments of the market are far apart, and should probably remain that way to keep all brands strong.

I have had a fair share of Behringer stuff and some stuff failed on me, some stuff was alright. I only wonder with companies like Lab.Gruppen occupying very high ends of the pro sound amplifier market how the low-end Behringer stuff will affect it. [The power ratings for Behringer amps are somewhat optimistic, to put it politely. Take the lid off a Behringer amp and see how much of it is air :-) ] With the two occupying vastly different areas of the market, I hope it isn't a repeat of the Midas "rebrand". (Ie A Behringer euromixer isn't comparable to any pre-Behringer midas gear. It isn't really an XL4, or a Verona etc despite the newer stuff being labelled Midas.) That was my only concern/thought/musing. Also, "made in China" isn't really bad - "made in China with cheaper components" is the real problem.

Ah thanks. I thought you meant the Bugera (also a Music Group brand, aka Behringer) VEYRON TUBE BV1001T. But that's a little pricier, and looks like a component from a "hifi separates" set that were all the rage in the 80s.

Good point. It is interesting to see on tour-riders how many state "No Behringer" for equipment; the X32 might have changed all that though! Their new range of wifi-enabled mixers look interesting and might be a worthwhile investment if only to stop my singer fiddling with the mixer without a clue. Which amp is that? Is that the one named like a Bugati?

I do wonder if Midas has suffered because if you compare the M32 with the X32 (and their product pages), they're identical which means Midas have either gone downmarket, or Behringer has gone upmarket. With the Midas name now splashed on all Behringer products, this has surely diluted Midas' reputation? If you look at the Sound on Sound review for the ADA8200 (which has "Midas" all over it), it is apparent from the measured A to D converter performance that it isn't REALLY a Midas product (more "budget-conscious" converters used I think, less dynamic range). I thought all the original Midas engineering team in Kidderminster has vanished and gone elsewhere? It'll be interesting to see what happens with TC and Lab.Gruppen - I have already seen photoshop'd pictures with the PLM2000 having Behringer's logo put on it haha

Just noticed this after rumours at Frankfurt Musikmesse - [url="http://www.mi-pro.co.uk/index.php/news/read/music-group-acquires-tc-group/019967"]http://www.mi-pro.co...tc-group/019967[/url] As Music Group has bought MIDAS, Turbosound and now has TC Group (including LAB.Gruppen, Tannoy and TC Electronic), I can only imagine what will happen with TC Electronic's range of excellent bass gear. I hope there isn't a race to the bottom price-wise (or production wise, let's hope production isn't moved to Behringer City in China?), and TC Electronic don't start releasing the TC Nuke 2024 Pro amp....

Pity Oldman, your Ruach was lovely and the lightest bass in existence I think. Regarding the giant list of rigs, perhaps everyone should bring their own headphones (to save cross-ear-contamination)?