Huge Hands

I have just had an interesting email from Alex who has obviously seen this thread. He has taken the time to follow up and explain why there were some delays experienced, and why the badges don't spin. I think in terms of balance, it is only fair that I post that he says that the delays had been caused by a combination of difficult circumstances in 2014, and that he feels that they should soon be through the backlog and building stock to make the wait for delivery much better in 2015 for any prospective buyers.

Hi Martin, yep - any time for an A/B - just let me know! Would be good to get some other opinions on them too! I'm glad I went with the 4 ohm as they're suited to my LG1000 - might have to look into whether there are any other 2 channel amps in case it ever goes down! I couldn't justify having 3 cabs - whether that be due to cash or the gigs I do!

I've just started a separate review thread of mine - sorry to split it up - was trying not to hijack yours!

P.P.S. Anyone want to buy an Ashdown MAG 210 combo or 115T cab?

Well everyone, I finally received my 2 cabs from Barefaced on Saturday - a pair of 4 ohm Retro 210s. I have had a couple of band situations in the last two days where I was able to use them, so thought I'd post my opinions so far: I tore a back muscle this year whilst carrying my Ashdown gear, so wanted something lighter. I mainly play 5 strings, and love that low trouser flapping rumble I was getting from my B string through my 15" cab. Years ago, I had a quick go with Merton's then Compact (one of the first ones) with obbm's Ashdown LG1000 head. We were only able to play at low volumes due to it being in his flat, but I thought it sounded lovely. With this, and as Alex's USP was low weight, I looked at his website, but he doesn't do 15" loaded Compacts anymore. I decided to email him and ask him what he could offer. Once I'd said what I wanted, he suggested this new Retro 210 cab he'd designed. I (and I realise a lot of people will disagree with me on this) like a very warm, deep mellow tone with little or no bark or bite. I was very sceptical as I didn't think that a 2x10 cab would be able to push the volume of air and give me the sound I like. He told me they would, so I agreed to order them and utilise his 1 month return offer if I didn't like them. On Monday, I used both cabs (one each on a channel on my Ashdown LG1000), with my NS 5 string EUB and my Squier Precision V (with Wizard pickups). Last night, I used one cab on its side with my Precision V in a smaller room. I have to say in both cases, I had loads of headroom, and they sounded great! I especially liked the sound of the "mini rig" last night. Where I used to love my trousers flapping with the low B-string, I still have this but have realised the sound I thought I loved was the driver maxing out and farting. The sound is now a lot tighter and controlled without losing the force - fantastic! I will continue to play with them over the rest of the month, but based on my experience so far, I would have thought I won't be asking to return them! I probably need to play with my more "flat" basses to give them a thorough evaluation (I had the Wizards wound especially to suit my sound) - but the NS EUB sounded lovely through them. However, the main thing above all of this is the weight! I know this is why I contacted Alex in the first place, but it still amazes me how light they are. It was fantastic to walk into the venue last night with my gig bag over my shoulder, my goody case (amp, stand and cables) in one hand and the cab in the other! No more trolleys over uneven car parks! The one thing I would say that blighted the whole thing for me was the wait to get them. As I later found out on BC, I didn't wait half as long as some of the others who ordered them, and possibly got mine faster than some that did wait a long time. I was desperate to get something lighter ASAP, so when I contacted him and he gave the impression 6-8 weeks, I decided I could just about wait that long. In the end, it was about 12-13 weeks, and around the Christmas period there was a lot of "carrot and donkey" stuff going on where I was being told it would be a certain week, then they hadn't managed it. Again, I will probably get flamed for this, but I personally think that if a company promises a period of time for delivery, they should do everything in their power to make that deadline as they made that "promise". I'm now glad I did wait, but if I'd have been told 12-13 weeks originally, I may have decided to go with another manufacturer. That is just my humble opinion of course - it's easier to say all of this now it is behind me and I have the cabs! Sorry for the blurry example images: [url="http://s945.photobucket.com/user/Gingersonic09/media/photo_zpsc00190d6.jpg.html"][/url] [url="http://s945.photobucket.com/user/Gingersonic09/media/photo_zpsa847666d.jpg.html"][/url] P.S. I did agree last night that the bage looked silly when the cab was on its side, so a "spinnable" smaller logo might have been a good touch. I do like the logo though (I know that is the subject of another thread!)

Looks like I spoke too soon. Sorry for the blurry image..... Merton, as you can see I went for the silver cloth grille, but after seeing the photo of them in the shop., I'm kind almost wishing I went for the black! I have tried them at low volume and sound good as a pair (neighbours aren't keen on the noise) - really light too which is what I wanted. Just waiting for Monday night when I can really put them through their paces! I'm happy to meet up whenever you want - would love to try your Super Compact!

Two of the 2x10s in the pic were mine. They kept emailing me asking if they could hold off the delivery so they could take some photos. I said they could as long as I got them delivered today. They said they had shipped them, late yesterday. I'm only about 40 miles up the road and currently waiting in the house for the delivery, although it wouldn't suprise me if I'm wasting my time.....

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1421350837' post='2660315'] My mate didn't do so well - his rendition of House of the Rising Sun didn't strike a chord with the judges! [/quote] You know Matt too then? He works for the same company as me, albeit I'm in London. I haven't seen him for a lot of years, so I probably can't call him a "mate" too much. I think it was a shock to most of us that he was on there. Shame he didn't get through, we'd have all been rooting for him!

I've always had good service from them, but stuff I ordered on the 4th Jan didn't get processed until 8th, and only got delivered yesterday (14th). I guess it's still only 10 days or 7 working days, but when you're used to it being a lot slicker, it was a bit of concern at times. I also thought it was odd that I sent a mail to query why it hadn't been processed on the morning of the 8th - but didn't get a reply - only for me to get a notification a couple of hours later that it had been processed. Looking foward to playing with it all at the weekend. All in all though - I would hope it would be the Christmas/New Year rush etc - I'm still not put off using them just yet...

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1421070774' post='2656764'] The sound guy already asked me to not turn up as he was having trouble with bassiness I suppose, and it was a situation where adding more noise was not going to help much anyway... [/quote] Something tells me this stage suffers regularly from resonance or similar making the sound an issue - which is probably why the sound guy, and therefore his promoter, try and pre-empt this before gigs by asking drummers to either cut a hole or remove the skin. The promoter is probably more "definitely has to happen" about it, because he may not understand the technicaliities so much - he is in effect passing on the sound guy's rules. I note that BeerOfTheBass said the sound guy suggested removing the skin but then didn't push it. This is what I was trying to say in earlier posts. As a lone sound guy, it's often you against a group of matey band members, so you often have to be quite blunt to get your point across. They were probably starting with the "cut a hole" line to lay down the law and make you think about it - but on the night, he's probably thinking "Well, I've said my bit, if they don't listen and it sound s**t, I can always say I told them so." I'm only going by past bitter experience as a former FOH/monitors guy in venues with poor acoustics when voicing my opinions. Yes, if the acoustics are good and the stage volume is lower, then you probably can get a good sound micing up from in front of the front skin. However, when you've got a drummer who wants a huge drum fill on stage with loads of kick going through it, it's not always so easy! Glad your gig went well in the end. As a bassist and drummer, I should probably be on the side of not touching the gear, but as a former engineer, I can't help but defend the men (and women) in black!

I've had this with a couple of keyboard players over the years. As someone has already alluded to, one solution (if you can't talk it through) is to roll off the bottom end on the mix or their little amp (however they're being heard). This allows them to still play in their normal way without making the whole mix really muddy. Some keyboard players don't mind that, with others you may need to be a bit more underhand and sneaky about it....

I have to jump to the defence of the sound guy on this one, although I am doing based on my presumptions rather than knowing the full story..... I think a lot of you may be mistaking practicality for someone wanting to change the sound. On a lively stage with guitar amps turned up to 11, vocal wedges turned up full and loads of bass rumble, mic'ing a non ported kick drum from the front skin can be a nightmare in terms of control of booming, feedback and getting any decent level of attack from it. It may sound like a great drum to you in your rehearsal room un-mic'd, but if all the bass drum mic is doing is picking up the singer's wedges and rumble from the bass amp, you're not going to hear much of it through the PA anyway. In the scenarios mentioned above with multiple bands on and off, the last thing the sound man will want to do in limited soundcheck time is to spend 40mins trying to get a good sound out of a kick drum for 1 band out of 5. I think that bands do have to understand that a little compromise isn't the end of the world. It also makes the night run much smoother if you are able to share backline and drum shells as it cuts down on time spent having to move everything around on stage. I imagine this is probably why the promoter is pushing for it too - more music and less faffing about on stage. It is worth noting that the best drummers I've seen on gigs (Clem Catini, Pete Ray Biggin to name but two) were often the first to ask if they can borrow the house band or another band's kit. Just all my opinions of course....

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1420632069' post='2651478'] .... but expecting the drummer to modify his gear to suit them seems a bit off. [/quote] In allusion to my previous post - I have been known to "suggest" to drummers to cut holes in their bass drum skin or take the front skin off, but this was usually to those that were insistent on a particular sound that we couldn't get because they didn't have a hole and we had a very lively/noisy stage with other band members and monitors. We certainly never forced anyone to do it. I know as a drummer myself, I would have never been happy to take a stanley knife to my drum skin but I did take mine off a few times!

In my experience mainly as a front of house sound man (and a bit of studio) - if you're mainly after attack, then close mic'ing the head is the best way. The easiest way to do this would be to put the mic inside the drum via the hole, or if a drummer doesn't have/refuses to make a hole, close mic from next to the beater, like Truckstop said. If you want more of the drum's rumble and sound, then you mic at the hole so that you have direct attack and "colouration". I always found that mic'ing a non ported drum head on the front side meant that you didn't get much attack, and was difficult to use in a live stage environment due to rumble and feedback caused by needing to push the gain further. However, I'm sure there will be others who have worked in much better sound environments who will say I'm talking codswallop!

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1419337881' post='2638854'] What an awesome present Enjoy it and review when you can Still tempted by these cabs to go with my valve amp... [/quote] Martin, if you're still in the area, you'd be welcome to pop down and try mine when I get them.

I ordered mine a lot later than that! No hard feelings from me and glad to see they're finally out there! I just keep thinking of the gigs I've done (and will do) before I get them where I'd have loved to try them (I ordered two) out!

Did you get yours Bigwan? I just posted on a thread by Jenny_Innie where she's got hers, but I got the dreaded mail to say he hadn't managed to get mine out before his Christmas break. Having to wait until January now :-(

Well done, hope it's good! I got a message from Alex to say he's only managed to get a few out and I'd have to wait for mine until January

I think there is another point of view on this. I was studying studio recording at college/university in the 90s, and loved acid jazz music. However, I would get frustrated with how clean and clinical everything was. I got sick of hearing heavily gated snare drums tightened up to bursting! I started getting into older 70s funk where everything felt so much more real and gritty. Personally, I like recordings where it sounds like everyone was in the room together. I like to hear the fags smouldering in the ashtray and the squeak of a bass drum pedal! This did go against a lot of my lecturer's opinions on my course! What I'm trying to say is, I think a lot of the modern "poor quality" stuff may be intentionally going against the "DDD" CD dream of the 90s, and if it's your thing, like mine, there's nothing wrong with that. However, a poorly mixed, compressed or limted recording that is just down to a badly done copy is just as frustrating to me too! Again, this is all IMHO!

I have a bit of a take on this. - I used to be a FOH sound engineer at a venue that would hold themed weekends. Although I'm in my late 30s, I grew up listening to my parents' choice of 1960s music (amongst others) and loved it all. However, I used to dread 60's themed weekends. I used to find that in a lot of cases, the real talented stars from that era would have made their money and were probably on a beach in California and nowhere to be seen. The "authentic" band would be made up of someone like the original keyboard player who left just as they were getting famous, and the rest would be replaced by mates who weren't good enough to be in the original lineup back in the 60s. Add to this that they're all deaf from years playing with bad PAs and backline, and the sound coming from them would be atrocious! It used to ruin many a classic for me. Those guys would have been in their early 60s when I worked with them, and be in their 70s now. However, on the flip side of that, I remember a few examples where the star of the era would have their son on bass or drums. As a father myself, I think that would be a great bonding thing to do, but quite often, you'd end up with some sort of furious slapping solo or double kick drum fill in the middle of a classic 60s track that just didn't belong there. Fair enough if you're going to see a band do an experimental version of a classic song, but not from the original artist on a 60's weekender where the rest of the song is being played verbatim. Therefore, I think there's advantages and disadvantages of both young and old! This is all IME and IMHO of course!

I'm definitely looking forward to getting mine now.....

I might be repeating what Bigwan posted last week, but I've just had the following response from Alex: "We're working on the tolexing right now. It simply comes down to how long it takes for us to get that process nailed to a sufficiently high standard - once it's sorted then we can make these outstanding Retro10 cabs very quickly. We're also waiting for the steel grills but that doesn't affect your order." (I ordered the cloth version) I guess my next question would be "how long will that take then?", but I'm guessing I'd light the touchpaper on that one!

My experiences of 02R's in a live setting about 10 years ago were (and you've already touched on a lot of these): Really heavy for size. Input preamps (analogue gain knob) go into nasty sounding distortion very easy at the slightest flicker of a red light. Not good for "on the fly" mixing as they're not that fast to navigate through the pages - especially if you've not had a soundcheck! Better if using as stored automated mix (tour style) with just some tweaking. My final piece of advice that I learned at the time was to ignore the pretty graphs the parametric EQ's draw - just concentrate on the actual numbers you're dialling in. I know that sounds obvious, but I would keep getting distracted by the amount of weird wavy lines I was getting instead of what I knew would be the right settings to get it to sound better!

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1416764895' post='2613343'] The Retro Two10, as described on the BF website, is a ported cab that is made to sound like a sealed cab. At a guess it'll look like the majority of all other cabs, a rectangular black box...doesn't make for exciting photography IMO, so no need for pictures of it really. [/quote] This is what I thought, when I ordered mine. I was more interested in it after speaking to Alex about what I wanted from a cab and how it would sound. He certainly was communicative then! I am just hoping I can still get mine before Christmas. This is in line with what I was told by Alex when I ordered, but doesn't ring true after reading this thread.....

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1416498584' post='2610920'] Current production queue may be 1-2 months on cabs already in production, but the 2*10 hasn't got that far from what I can gather from the VERY limited communication I've had from Alex/Barefaced. [/quote] It certainly wasn't explained to me like that. I guess I have to give Alex the benefit of the doubt as I'm only just around 6 weeks of waiting at the moment, but as I'm buying 2 of these from him to help stop the fact I'm regularly pulling a muscle in my back with my current cabs, I don't want to have to gig those for another 9 months or something! I feel your pain Bigwan - I certainly hope you get yours before me!