funkydoug

thanks @DiMarco and @Downunderwonder for those replies. Much appreciated.

10 hours ago, DiMarco said:

The Peavey made Trace Elliot 2x8" cabs are some of the nicest I have ever owned. The Faitalpro speakers in there are simply amazing.

I've heard that from a few people. How loud do you find them to be? How far can one cab go before you need two? I appreciate that the correct answer to that question starts with  'it depends... ' but if you can shed any light on how they perform in different contexts I'd find it very helpful indeed - and I'm sure others would too  Thanks!

yeah, look at an old SMX or Series 6 and then look at the ABM range:

1. Input gain 'visualiser' 
2. choice of solid state or tube preamp
3. compressor
4. sophisticated eq
5. big toroidal transformer
6. form factor
7. shape switch
8. weight

TE approach to amp making is very much alive and well, they don't even try to pretend otherwise. If you really want the sound and reliability, go ABM ... if you can live without green paint that is!

Yeah the cabs ... look very big and old school. I remember reading on TB somewhere from a Peavey  employee that Peavey knew (or at least thought) that no-one would ever pay a premium price for a Peavey cab no matter how amazing it was - the brand is just not seen as a high-end marque. Which is a shame, because they've made enough amps and cabs to know how to make them very well indeed, I'm certainly a fan. From that perspective it makes sense (for them) to use the TE label to access the higher end of the market.

They've done small with the ELF cabs. These cabs look like old TE / Peavey  cabs from at least a decade ago. I'm sure they will sound excellent - but may be too large and heavy for the tastes of younger players and the backs of older ones.

On 07/07/2021 at 15:07, Witch Hazel said:

the new Ampeg Rocket Bass combos launched under Yamaha ownership and (at least over on TB) seem to be fairly well received, with "the Ampeg sound" intact.   Yamaha must surely be aware that that's a big part of why people buy their gear and wouldn't want to mess with that. 

also, please may i join your club!

Perfect fit for a vertical BF210?? Oh man, I almost made it out of the thread GAS-free!

you might be right @Bigwan, although I think Peavey make their own power modules as they do so much in the way of live sound / PA amps - either way I agree that it'll probably be 1200 @ 2ohms.

My money is on 1200 RMS at 2ohms, 600w at 4ohms, 300w at 8ohms. That is more in keeping with Peaveys of old. 

As for the illuminated dials, I am guessing: gain, treble&bass, switchable shape, drive&blend, chorus and dual band comp. So, very much like the Transit preamp but with less control of the mids.

Very excited as a fan of both Peavey and Trace - I'd far rather speculate and second-guess this than the England team selection for the Euros 

Yeah, experience has taught me that Laney know how to make a great sounding preamp, and are also good and sneaking valves into tiny spaces (and running them at high voltage) so I wouldn't rule out a real tube being in there or a solid state preamp sounding good.

Shame about the name 🤦‍♂️

does this one have the tweeter ?

Well it has passed the female vocal test with flying colours.

Played Sade, Stevie Nicks, London Grammar and Bjork. All sounds brilliant and far better than my Sony hifi

Also pinned the issue down to preamp distortion. Turning the Lpad right down is one way to dirt-proof the box, another is to use the onboard preamp as it was intended ('grind', not wild distortion) and leave any real dirt to pedals with tone dials / cab sims which seems to be a pretty standard approach.

I am amazed this doesn't happen more often though, especially on cabs with tweeters crossed over at 3.5khz and lower ... or do all dirt pedals really roll off the highs sufficiently to prevent this?  Curious because as we know, Barefaced cabs crossover low, as do Bill's, and both are well regarded and road tested by countless players.

Anyway, this is now just a matter of curiosity. The combo works very well for my intended use. It has lovely low end, crisp top end and as a small amp it is very satisfying. The modelling suggests that there are no problems in terms of driver excursion or port chuffing up to 100w which is as much power as it will see with the 16ohm driver and play testing supports that, at least to my ears. It will marry up with an 8ohm cab (2x10) without asking too much of the onboard driver and port, and the tweeter can be turned up in that situation to balance the 3x10s rather than 1x10. And it looks smart! Very happy.

Thanks for all your input guys.

Thanks Stevie, those 2 possibilities  are what I also arrived at.

I've got this right, feeding it a clean but hot and very bass heavy sound will test whether the problem is too much bass for the crossover (in which case the problem will reappear) or an unfiltered distortion (in which case it will not reappear).

I'd hope that it is scenario 1 (of stevies 2) because 3.5khz 2nd order crossover is what eminence  recommend for the APT80. 

In the event that I need more HF protection it isn't game over, I'll just need to go back to the drawing board for HF protection. 

Thanks @Chienmortbb Any excuse to play a bit of Sade and Dire straits is a good plan

Will report back. Hopefully the ABM eq will help with handling peaks and troughs. 

Thanks Bill. In that case I'm especially glad I added the Lpad, and that in all real world situations  my dirt pedals all have some kind of LPF / cab sim.

I have to say I'm surprised at how bad it the dirt sounds up in the tweeter territory.  I'd read alot about distortion sounding nasty with a tweeter without LPF but this was far worse than I expected. 

Im happy to report that in all but those extreme tests the combo is now doing great. 

Another update on this project, and another question.

I added an APT80 to it which was a drop-in replacement for the cheap piezo that Ashdown had used. I also used a custom 2nd order crossover (thanks to Blue Aran's great email support) which crosses over at 3.5khz but was built for my 16ohm woofer and the APT80 at 8ohms. 

Controlling the level on the tweeter was important as it's both very sensitive and is an 8ohm unit. My aim was to be able to run the tweeter 'loud' in the event that this combo sits on top of a tweeterless cab but dial it down in normal use. I used an eminence LPad to do it. Seems to work very well.

I had to remove the wadding I'd added to do all that, but will re-do it once I'm sure Im happy.

The question is about using distortion with a tweeter. It all sounds good at any realistic setting but if I fully max what is a very mild dirt dial on the ABM, max the bass and max the preamp gain even at very low volume (like bedroom volume) I get a horrible, unmusical distortion sound from the tweeter that is in the 'malfunction' ballpark - not musical in anyway. It did this with the piezo and with the new tweeter.  Is it just that running that much bass overpowers the HF protection offered by the crossover?? Or maybe it is the sound of the input stage or valve being overpowered?  Anything to worry about?? I wouldn't run it like that in any real situation - only did it as part of testing everything - but I am slightly concerned it is a warning sign that something isn't right.

Price drop 

hi, yes it is

11 hours ago, spongebob said:

Interesting stuff.

I used to put a Rumble 500 head into a Rumble 1x15 cab....actually found that better than the 2x10 combo!

Hence the interest in a powerful 1x15 combo. Had a Trace 715SMC years back, monster heavy, but monster loud from a 1x15 combo! Guess I'm always chasing that......

It appears that someone is selling a combo that you might say is a light weight reincarnation of those trace 715s in the marketplace. Pm me if you need further signposting

Could be good news if G4M start making decent amps using the Eden brand. Hope so.

3 hours ago, ianrendall said:

I took the time to find a suitable forum. This does not disappoint. It’s almost a carbon copy of Basschat…but for pipes! There’s even a small section for cigars, which must be their equivalent of the guitar.

https://pipesmagazine.com/forums/#main-category.1

Surely this deserves a prize! Almost too BC to be true.

Asking myself some serious questions now 🤦‍♂️

Thanks Bill. With that combination of 2nd and 4th order, do I need to reverse the polarity of the woofer to avoid phase problems?

Yep I will do. It currently has a simple 1st order filter on the tweeter, with nothing on the woofer side. Will start to look at filters and crossovers now,  starting by revisiting the BC cab threads. 

Suggestions from you learned lot will be much appreciated. 

Quite a bit more bottom end in a pleasing way. Happy with the result.

WinISD suggests that is tuned to about 57 hz with the current port length but is very close to Agedhorse and Stevie's suggested dimensions. If they'd be happy then I'm happy:)

Probably  going to swap the cheap tweeter for an APT80 or a BGH25-8 and will no doubt spend the next month agonising over that 🤦‍♂️

Thanks to all who have given their advice on this. I added to 100mm port today. Also lined it and changed the speaker for a very good 16ohm SICA that I picked up on ebay for £40. It is ideal. 

The idea is to run this as a 16ohm small combo that I can hook up to an 8ohm 210 with two of the same drivers and with the same tuning.  Very happy with the result. Next job is to upgrade the tweeter. It is certainly a fun  project

On 26/05/2021 at 21:12, Woodinblack said:

Normally, yes, but this is in the amp, so there is nowhere to put the HPF, unless there is one already built into the ABM600

In the effects loop, which I'm pretty sure is after the front panel stuff.

I've asked about whether there is a HPF built into ABMs a few times and have read directly contradictory replies from different  people at Ashdown. As a result , if I need an HPF on an ABM I take matters into my own hands.

7 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Be very judicious in the use of a sub-harmonic generator. A generated tone one octave down played at the same volume as the original note will double the power requirement on the amp and speaker, and driver cones could be pushed past their mechanical limits.

Bill is if course right here but players have used octavers for decades so don't let this very sensible advice stop you making music! Good good bass cabs are pretty robust in reality.

If in doubt a good HPF will help, even with an octaver / sub.