molan

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1421077213' post='2656869'] I'm sure there is more to it than that, it was just a different possibility to throw into the pot. I'm far removed from being any sort of financial whiz kid, but could exchange rates perhaps play a part in this as well? [/quote] Yeah, exchange rates are a nightmare to deal with on things like custom orders with a longer build time. We're not money brokers so we don't have a nice fat $ or € reserve to work with. Can have a huge effect on a $10,000 order if the £ falls fast against the $ after an order has been placed. Obviously this can be a 2-way street but we generally reduce prices when the £ is strong & try not to increase if it's weak. An associated issue (not just to the exchange rate one) is that quite a few of the more bespoke suppliers insist on payment in advance before releasing any goods. With so many retailers going under I can understand where they're coming from but it really increases the cost of stock for any small independent seller. Some large shipments come by sea so you can be out of pocket for 6 weeks before something even arrives in the UK. It's then highly unlikely that you'll shift an entire pallet load of speakers in a few days or weeks so the cost of capital tied up in the business, and any associated interest rates, can be quite painful Supplier views can be 'interesting' on exchange rate fluctuations - we have at least one that regularly increases prices in the UK if the exchange rate is against them. Strangely thy don't tend to fall back again when it's the other way around. . .

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1421033898' post='2656428] Maybe the German manufacturer has subsidised the prices in the US to gain some market share? [/quote] I think there's a bit more to it than that Ian - there's loads of similar examples. A simple one is a John East pre-amp. Currently £195 direct from the manufacturer in the UK. Last time I checked it was readily available in the US for around £165. Obviously it wouldn't be worth re-importing one because the duties would take it up above the UK price but, if you live in the States you can buy a UK product for £30 less than it costs in the UK. Could just be differences in sales taxes but that would ignore any shipping costs and U.S. importation duties.

I lived in Barnet for many years - technically Hertfordshire although there's quite a few tube stations straight into town. Apart from the live venues mentioned above I used to really like Farm Factory Studios in Welwyn. One of the best rehearsal spaces I've ever used and used to be nice people as well

[quote name='kodiakblair' timestamp='1421008726' post='2656176'] Molan There's no way I'm going to ask what the order was for. That's company business alone. Judging from the products for sale the charge could be on products retailing at £2000 odds and the company would go bust up to a retail value of £32,000 where it's about 5%. That's still a lot of money but in line with normal business practise. Import duty is 3.5% and Customs Clearance is £8 so the importing company's fee isn't high. As the VAT is pasted on to the customer it's not at issue here nor is the cost of importing and insuring small quantities of valuable instruments. My problem is Fender,Gibson et al banning companies from selling direct to the UK and forcing us to pay prices they set, not what the UK shops have to charge.It costs no more to ship a container from the Far East to the UK than it does to ship to the US. That's why I used the Squier example. I said those companies won't get my money not the shop used as an example. Hope that's clear, this is not a dig at UK shops. [/quote] I think you're missing point that those big guys simply can't ship to the UK for free and there are loads of costs you're ignoring in your calculations. Most of the big guys send to a Central European warehouse. I know Fender CS go to Holland but not sure if this is the same for Squier or lower end Fenders. There's a significant overhead in maintaining this warehouse and also a sizeable cost of stock held waiting to be ordered. Individual UK shops can order single units to meet demand or block order larger consignments. Either way there's a further cost of shipping from the warehouse to the UK - plus we're an island so this cost is generally going to be higher than internal freight inside continental Europe. There's then a further cost in running a full, locally based, returns, warranty and repairs team (also with additional courier charges). Again I only know how the UK CS operation works but any warranty issues are dealt with promptly, returns are sent to Haywards Heath for assessment, you get a fast response and they either fix the issue on site or request a replacement. There's an additional network in place for rarer items whereby Fender UK can approach Holland or Germany (where a lot of instruments at also held). All of this costs money and there will be an inevitable tickle down effect in h cost of every instrument sold. Of course the US will have similar systems but their costs of transport are way lower than European costs and setting up a secondary infrastructure for shipping, storage, distribution, sales etc is almost certainly higher in Europe than in the States. All,of those costs quickly add up and are reflected in the price differential between US and UK prices. As soon as you add the increased average price of a UK retailer's overheads then this exacerbates the final consumer price difference even further. I could be wrong but, based on our experience, the margins aren't great on these instruments. I genuinely don't think UK consumer is being purposefully screwed on price, it simply costs more to get them in their hands than it does for US customers because the core business base has been set up to service the 'domestic' market as a priority. NB - The ones at I never quit understand are some European (including British) brands that are available at lower prices in the the US than over here. We had a recent example where it was cheaper for our customer for us to buy a European brand of pickups in the US from another retailer, ship them over here, pay duties and VAT and then pay UK postage costs. We actually undercut a 'large German online retailer' this way and the product we bought was made in Germany!

Set up next to him, point your cab directly at him, boost your low mids (because he'll really hear those on stage) get a decent octaver and hit him with as much sub-bass as you can. Then see if he complains at your low end is swamping him

We bring a lot of stuff over from the USA and there's always a lot more than 20% VAT to add on top. The latest one we were hit with was a £55 charge for the importing company levied on us for admin to pay the various import duties and customs clearance charges. The total bill on 4 basses ended up at £1,550! The other one that we often get hit with is fuel surcharges for collection at point of pick up and delivery from the airport to our shop. One recent charge was £25 from Heathrow which is only 20 miles away. Insurance on instruments is a bitch as well It never ceases to amaze me just how many additional charges there are over and above simple core shipping cost and VAT.

I had one for a while and didn't find any huge problems when I first played it. However I did counter the odd difficulty when swapping back and forth between the Dingwall and regular basses. Only up around the nut though, maybe first 3 frets or so. I couldn't find any benefit on a 4 sting bass so eventually gave up. Definitely of more use on a low B than than an E.

[quote name='Thunderbird' timestamp='1420927274' post='2655261'] Yes some are if you re read my post I said" no not all but some are"and some music shops I know of treat youngsters appallingly I have seen it and pulled the owner up and not used the shop again .For what its worth I don't think you are being difficult you are only trying to voice your views the same as I am Anyway sorry for my thread derailment guys [/quote] I don't understand why you won't say who they are then?

[quote name='Thunderbird' timestamp='1420926286' post='2655247'] No but that some are and I know from a lot of the young people I help out they feel intimidation from going in most shops around here as they get ignored or the piss taken out of them etc I know not all shops are like this so please forgive my generalisation [/quote] Sorry, I'm not not trying to be difficult here but, just to be clear, from what you've followed up saying, you don't know anyone in the music retail industry that complains about online retailers whilst living in large houses, driving flash cars and not caring about new young customers?

[quote name='Thunderbird' timestamp='1420925408' post='2655222'] Many firms even big firms where I have worked say the have no money but bosses and directors always seem to do all right in general IMO [/quote] And they all run music retail businesses and sell high end gear and don't care about youngsters wanting to buy strings?

[quote name='Thunderbird' timestamp='1420919278' post='2655113'] I am going slightly of topic here but you hear all these firms moaning about there trade suffering and that they can;t compete with on line firms but yet the directors and bosses all seem to live in big houses and drive big sw***y cars so things obviously are not as bad as they make out. And also it is not just about Thomann being cheaper they have great customer service unlike many shops here that dont give a monkeys about the young kid with a tenner to spend on strings and just want to sell high end gear at a nice profit I am afraid lots of so called music shops are there own worst enemy [/quote] Which firms are moaning and have owners living in big houses and driving sw***y cars? Just interested because I've never met any of them. I'm not doubting they might not exist just interested to know who they are?

It's interesting to see all the comments in this thread about Thomann and their buying clout. In some cases they actually are not able to buy any cheaper than anyone else. However their logistics operation is so large and efficient that this can allow them to sell way cheaper than other European retailers. A recent example is a brand that has a fixed price policy to all retailers. From what I understand Thomann have a large truck (or trucks) circling the USA collecting products and delivering them en masse to a central sea based shipping point. Everything is put in a huge container and shipped together. I'd assume they have a big insurance contract that covers everything whilst in transit. There will also be a big saving in centralised paperwork on the importation and clearance fees. Individual shipping cost per unit is negligible because so many things are coming over at once. Conversely we recently bought two units from the same supplier. Our shipping cost was $400 with an additional $80 for insurance. Depending on exchange rates that's a cost of about £150 per unit. On this simple calculation Thomann could afford to offer £100 discount and still make £50 extra profit (and that's obviously excluding any other savings involved in running an online only business). On the surface this looks like a good thing for buyers of this product. A straight £100 saving (or more) simply saving on shipping - the only people being hit on profits are the courier companies. Manufacture is still getting the same price and the end user gets it for less money. The potential downside is that this particular product was previously unavailable to try at any retailer in the UK. We reintroduced the brand and lots of people have been able to try them out and have subsequently purchased. If our margins are so eroded that we can't afford to stock this brand then it's highly likely it won't be available to demo anywhere in the UK. Obviously people could order online, try at home and return if not happy. This wouldn't allow comparison against lots of other similar products which, for some people is very important. This isn't a moan about online retailers, that's just a different way of doing business that can be very succesful. However, as a gigging bass player I think it will be a sad day if the few decent shops in the country are closed down because of the new economic models

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1420811768' post='2653751'] Hence the 'Not sure if they still do it' comment. They certainly did back in the mid 80's, but that was 25 years before the 'Competition Law' stuff that covers price fixing only appeared. [/quote] It is absolutely still the case that some large suppliers and/or distributors will aim to price fix. Dealers discovered selling below a certain price and/or margin can find their supply 'severely restricted' in the future. . .

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1420905199' post='2654825'] I was under the impression VAT wasn't applicable on used equipment? [/quote] VAT is payable on everything a vat registered shop sells. Calculation is based on any profit made.

[quote name='andy67' timestamp='1420811643' post='2653746'] Quite happy to be wrong, just going on info imparted to me from a rep. [/quote] No idea what he was repping but 45% markup is definitely old history. The more exclusive and higher demand products are the lower the margin an MI retailer will make. May be an odd accessory out there at 45% but not instruments or amplification that I know of. PS - If he does rep basses or amps that actually sell at 45% markup then get him to give me a call and we'll stock them!

I know three pretty accomplished luthiers and all of them have given up making complete instruments. Simply not enough money in it because the relative cost of labour compared to machine built instruments was too high. One of them now has a high end restoration and repair business, another is a classic setup and regular repair man and the third works in a guitar shop. I think it's really difficult to make any sort of money these days as a bespoke, small volume, builder. Great hobby and a useful string to add to your bow as a setup expert but, as others have said, it's a potentially long road for little, financial, reward

Pierre Ganseman is your man for advice - he's lived in Berlin for a few years and knows his way around Plus he's a big funk fan so will know the best live music venues as well

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1420883647' post='2654459'] Some nice gear, including a Fodera. I thought they were totally 'unplayable', 'ugly' and 'obscenely priced'?! He would've known that if he spent less time recording and touring the world with legendary artists and spent more time on basschat... [/quote] That Marcus Miller bloke is the same, he has 3-4 Foderas (I think he sold one in 2013 for charity) that he uses regularly and records with

My mum has an iPad and uses a rubber tipped pointing device. She's never touched her screen with a fingertip!

Just goes to show the power of good marketing and a top name artist endorsement. People often say that artist endorsed and/or signature basses don't have a lot of influence but the buzz about Sire online has been huge since this was announced. I'd guess if a new Korean made Fender J clone was released without the Marcus association it would get very little media and forum coverage. The Flea endorsed bass was similar in terms of coverage and expectation but these do seem a lot nicer than those ones.

I quite like them. Doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the SM series but sounds great for powerful rock stuff. Actually I really like a lot of the classic era SWR gear. Gigged an SM400 for a long time combined with a Triad cab

The using of a third party collection agent is a well known ruse used by EBay scammers on a very regular basis. The EBay trick is that the person pays you. The courier collects and the buyer then says the item has not arrived and it appears to be untraceable as it hasn't been collected either in person by the buyer or a 'recognised' major courier. We get approached at the shop on a regular basis by people trying to do this and as soon as we insist on a courier like FedEx or UPS they strangely never contact us again. In this case the only concern appears to be whether the money is genuine or not. You could insist on meeting at a high street bank to get the cash cleared if you're at all concerned.

I've got a Carpenters hits album on iTunes - often gets played late at night driving home from rehearsals The programme is on again at 1:00 am on BBc4 by the way.

Dr Ducks Ax Wax is goo for cleaning just about everything. Have to use a tiny amount though. We use it in the shop and have had the same bottle on the go for about 18 months now!