peteb

[b]True story[/b] - a good friend of mine is a very useful guitar player who plays in a band that gigs a lot (and I do mean a lot). However, he is a touch on the lazy side and he used to use a digital combo because he couldn’t be bothered lugging a 4x12 and heavy valve amp around. He used to swear that his set-up was as good if not better as those with boogie half stack or whatever other guitar players playing in similar bands were using despite this obviously not being the case and several people informing of this fact! So what does our hero do? He gets a more expensive modelling amp, which admittedly does sound pretty good in his front room but still pretty weak in a live situation. Eventually he bites the bullet and buys a boutique valve amp (only a 1x12 combo thru) and lo and behold he has a great sound that everyone complements him on and he could not be happier…. And the moral of this story….. a modelling type amp may sound fine in a small room on its own but in a live scenario at least, it will never come close to a decent ‘proper’ amp, even if it weighs an awful lot less!

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1334221839' post='1612617'] He also posted this, which I like [i]'If I lose a few "bass fans" along the way, I couldn't be happier. It's like people who are on your mailing list that are dead weight. They hang out and open one out of 50 emails you send out, and probably only arrived on the list to get something free in the first place. The more people like that I can trim away the better. People who call themselves "fans" just so they can hang out and make derogatory comments about what you do aren't really fans at the end of the day are they? People who focus too much on the instrument and not on the music generally come to shows and stand there motionless all night with their coat still on, and perhaps even a backpack with the latest copy of whatever industry magazine they just picked up, a set of strings or a pair of drumsticks. They don't buy drinks which pisses of the club or venue owner, [b]and they certainly don't bring girls to the show which gets old after a while... [/b]and the worst part of all, they don't position themselves in a place of openness to enjoy the music because they're so wrapped up in how impossible it is to play as fast as Matt, Me, Hadrien or whoever. What they haven't realized is that if they really wanted to, they could play like that in 3 years. But there you come across yet another major issue with most people who are on this thought path or trajectory, they don't ever want to do the work. I really feel blessed to have such incredible fans that come out to shows and buy or download my music. They are loving, kind, and respectful, and I can do nothing but the same thing back to them. Long may this trend continue for my music. I will die a very happy person if this is the shape of things to come.'[/i] [/quote] Sorry, I'm just laughing here that Janek is blaming other people for there not being any girls at his shows...........

[quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1334169826' post='1612031'] This is a difficult thing to explain. Because first you've got to find out what it was that they enjoyed. Was it the level of energy created by the performance? The feeling of release after tension? Or in the case of snarky puppy, their use of uncommon harmonies and subdivisions that make all us musicians poo our pants. Another thing. Pop music, rock music, and simple blues' use simple harmonic content. I can only imagine this is because the mass public prefer music where it is simple and easy to listen to, whereas a lot of jazz, especially fusion, has a niche market, most of which are musicians anyway. [/quote] In the real world punters tend not to over analyse why they like something, nor should they! Obviously simpler and more accessable music is more accessable to the general public. However, if a group like Weather Report can put out tunes like Birdland or Teen Town, then they will be able to reach a wider audience.....

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1334168849' post='1612007'] I did get what you were getting at, I just used your post as a bit of a jumping off point, sorry I didn't make it a bit clearer. But there is a lot of music out there that isn't 'accessible' and I don't buy that you necessarily need a good understanding of any type of music to make a judgement on it necessarily. I dragged along a few people to a gig I went to on Sunday night that had absolutely no listening background in jazz but very much enjoyed a very leftfield jazz ('fusion') style band. Likewise my girlfriend's mum got taken along to a Shostakovich concerto recently having never been to (or listened to) anything much orchestral in her life and yet now she can't stop talking about him, talk about getting thrown in at the deep end. I think ultimately what is boils down to is just how open-minded you are, not how much you've listened to one particular type of music. Let people decide for themselves. [/quote] I agree to a large extent, but the less accessable the music is the more it helps to have an understanding of where that music comes from to appreciate it. I may not be a big fan of jazz fusion or whatever you might call it but I still have a couple of Weather Report albums, which I think bears out your point i.e. the better the music the more likely it is to appeal to those who you wouldn't normally expect to listen to it.....

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1334141415' post='1611399'] The problem with these disucssions is that perspective is always determined by the listening and playing experiences of the individual. If a kid who is a rock player hears Janek as the first advanced fusion player he has ever heard, he will have a different perspective than someone who has hundreds of bess led fusion cds dating back to Jaco and Stanley Clarke or even Mingus and Oscar Pettiford. Rating a musician, be that Janek, Mike Stern or Marcus Miller requires not only familiarity with their work but also the range of alternatives that are out there. Can you place Joe Henderson in the lineage of tenor saxophone players if you don't understand Coleman Hawkins, John Coltrane, Joe Lovano, Michael Breacker, Chris Potter etc? Can you comment on the JoJo Meyer if you don't know Elvin Jones, Billy Higgins, Steve Gadd, Dave Weckl, Bill Stewart and so on? You can have a view, of course, but it needs to be tempered by some acknowledgement of perspective. I have my favourite classical pieces but would never argue the merits of Bach over Beethoven because I don't know the genre well enough. I would always look to the experts for a considered view and develop a perspective that way. The trouble with the net is everyone is an expert, whatever their knowledge or experience. Each contributor is given equal weight without any qualification. [/quote] [quote name='risingson' timestamp='1334166969' post='1611967'] People get way too caught up in genres. I absolutely hate the term fusion, I'm not sure what it's even meant to mean (even if I am aware of what people would like me to think it means). I went to see Snarky Puppy on Sunday, and I absolutely loved every second of it but when the term 'fusion' gets applied to their music, my stomach turns a bit. Their music deserves a much better moniker, or better still, for people to understand that music is music - a touch of jazz here, a bit of funk there etc. It's all one giant palette. The argument that you are ill-equipped to judge music unless you have a very broad understanding of music (as much as elitism dictates that this should be the case) is quite frankly bollocks. The fact that artists willingly put their music out into the big wide world means that you waive the right to shelter yourself from the views of others. That's not to say that subjectivity concerning music shouldn't be exercised, but on the internet it's rarely obligatory and often totally ignored. Just learn to not expect it, but at the same time, let the music speak for itself as opposed to someone on a bass forum telling you why something you enjoy is rubbish. [/quote] I think that you may be misunderstanding the point that I was trying to make. Janek Gwizdala's music is not the most accessable (I don't think that he would claim that it is) and to appreciate it it helps to have an understanding of 'advanced fusion' music (see Bilbo's post above). I am quite happy to listen and enjoy all sorts of music but I don't like JG's music . However, this is partly because that sort of music is not really my thing, so it could be a really great piece of 'advanced fusion' and I still wouldn't like it...!

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1334152044' post='1611664'] But they the worst audiences of them all, a bunch of happy-clapping helmets who have no musical appreciation whatsoever, standing around a little stand watching someone demonstrate some non-musical technique with the aim of selling some gear. Whatever I think of Janek's music, I have to agree with him that these people are a drain, a f***ing burden, on the musicians and the people who really enjoy music. [/quote] Now there Nigel, that seems like an expression of contempt for your fellow musicians and members of the musical equipment trade, people who make up (whether you like it or not) part of your extended group of peers. You really do have to work out these self-hatred issues, they are only holding you back….. The reason that I mentioned the reaction at the trade show was to back up the point that Bilbo made in his post that his audience is only those who have an understanding of a pretty narrow part of the fusion / jazz cannon. If JG can’t get a favourable reaction out of the trade show crowd then he’s really f**ked if he ever has to face an audience made up of the general public! As it is, it seems that his target audience is predominantly made up of a section of people who frequent bass and certain jazz forums, including those who have been insulting each other on this thread! I find his music as dull as ditchwater (as I do the others he is being compared to here), but then my knowledge of this type of music is limited (but not non-existent). Even I can see that he is not close in terms of writing ability to the likes of Weather Report (for example) but that I can also accept that he is obviously a highly capable player who scores some highly prized gigs with guys who are extremely big names in the fusion world…..

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1334141415' post='1611399'] The problem with these disucssions is that perspective is always determined by the listening and playing experiences of the individual. If a kid who is a rock player hears Janek as the first advanced fusion player he has ever heard, he will have a different perspective than someone who has hundreds of bess led fusion cds dating back to Jaco and Stanley Clarke or even Mingus and Oscar Pettiford. Rating a musician, be that Janek, Mike Stern or Marcus Miller requires not only familiarity with their work but also the range of alternatives that are out there. Can you place Joe Henderson in the lineage of tenor saxophone players if you don't understand Coleman Hawkins, John Coltrane, Joe Lovano, Michael Breacker, Chris Potter etc? Can you comment on the JoJo Meyer if you don't know Elvin Jones, Billy Higgins, Steve Gadd, Dave Weckl, Bill Stewart and so on? You can have a view, of course, but it needs to be tempered by some acknowledgement of perspective. I have my favourite classical pieces but would never argue the merits of Bach over Beethoven because I don't know the genre well enough. I would always look to the experts for a considered view and develop a perspective that way. The trouble with the net is everyone is an expert, whatever their knowledge or experience. Each contributor is given equal weight without any qualification. [/quote] Good post All I could say about JG comes from a YouTube clip for TC Electronics at a trade show, where there was an audience that was definitely listening but looked, well slightly bored! The next clip was Uriah Duffy playing at the same event, thru the same amp and to exactly the same audience, who were all smiling and clearly interested in what he was playing. Needsless to say, Uriah Duffy received MUCH more applause then Janek did......

[color=#222222]TBH - I think that you need a thick skin to function as a musician![/color] [color=#222222][/color] [color=#222222]Whenever you are going for an audition you always have to bear in mind that if one of their mates becomes available then the band won’t want to bother going thru an audition process, or if the first guy they try seems to be just what they’re after then again, they won’t want to hold a load of unnecessary auditions.[/color] [color=#222222][/color] [color=#222222]It isn’t a formal selection process like an interview for a day job (thank god) so just shrug your shoulders and move onto the next one……[/color]

That's ace....... Never heard of him before but always liked the occasional piece of flamenco - will have to have a trawl through youtube when I have some spare time Whenever I hear the phrase 'impossible guitar', I always think of this. Perhaps not as steeped in traditional values not to mention lacking in depth compared to Vincente Amigo and certainly a different sort of virtuosoity but still impressive and great fun..... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYlx5gW90Aw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYlx5gW90Aw[/url]

A good drummer doesn't necessarily need outstanding chops but must have good time and feel and should also be able to ‘drive a band’ i.e. dictate the groove and make everyone play in time with him [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1332947845' post='1595323'] I wonder how some people would go on if the drummer was to deliberately turn the beat around or displace the accents? If you don't have your time solid you'll end up with a train wreck. [/quote] But isn't that pretty much like saying if you intentially drive a train off a bridge then you're going to get a train wreck?? [quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1332962142' post='1595641'] Classical composers and conductors treat musical tempo is a flexible entity, as have some rock bands. For instance, 'WInd Cries Mary' by Hendrix occasionally stumbles along, but the whole band stumbles together, so the fluctuating tempo evolves into something many of call 'feeling the beat' or the song. Other songs almost make a feature of a granite solid tempo, such as Toto playing Rosanna. [/quote] There is a difference between someone of undoubted musicality and originality with a slightly suspect drummer and a top quality group of musicians with superiour playing values! The first example relies on a unique talent that few have ever equalled producing a performance so definitive that you can ignore a less than perfect rhythm section, whereas the second sets a standard that you as a musician can at least aim for……

I woujld think that south yorkshire will be as good a place as any for covers gigs (pubs or clubs) - not as good as it was a few years ago thru....

Just bought Donny's Nash JB63 - a nice guy and great to deal with......

[color=#222222] [quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1332796548' post='1593369'] One thing that really comes through in Ed Friedland's book is that the bass rarely (if ever) gets called on to do a solo in a Blues band. The prime function is to hold it down with the drummer & highlight the vocalist / guitar / keyboard / harmonica's talents. [/quote][/color][color=#222222] [color=#222222]The problem that I have with the Ed Friedland book is that he keeps it a bit too simple! If you listen to Tommy Shannon or especially someone like Roscoe Beck (Robben Ford's old bass player), you will find that they like to keep a line moving and the stuff they are playing is not necessarily [b]that [/b]simple in execution, even if the basic concepts are![/color] [color=#222222][/color] [color=#222222]I would make sure that you can cover all the basic feels (slow blues, shuffles, etc) and practice as many ways of playing thru the I-IV-V changes in a slow blues as you can think of, until it becomes second nature to be able to vary your lines slightly for each chorus…..[/color][/color] [color=#222222][/color]

[quote name='marleaux62' timestamp='1332528796' post='1589733'] Went to see them last night at Newcastle, fav tracks: Walk On By / Nice And Sleazy / Hanging Around JJS base sounded better than ever. So much so, thinking of getting a Shuker!!! [/quote] My favourite JJB moment is playing the riff to Peaches on his Shuker bass earlier today!!

Hi Gus I use a Minotaur strap live these days, which is great and a bit cheaper than some of the other top quality leather straps! I did have a Comfort strap for a while, but never really got on with it.....

[indent=1]I don't think that plagiarism necessarily stops a band from being authentic - it's happened throughout the ages in all musical traditions![/indent]

Just scratching the surface: How Many More Times, Trampled Underfoot, In My Time of Dying, etc, etc Still for my money, the best rock band of them all........

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1332201112' post='1584885'] Well quite. But the object is not determinism, but self examination. I think. [/quote] Which just goes to show that the academic study of recent popular music can easily become faintly ridiculous and a bit pointless IMO

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1332200632' post='1584877'] I have a feeling the assignment is based on THIS definition [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authenticity_(philosophy"]http://en.wikipedia....ity_(philosophy[/url]) In which case I think it is far too wide a question. Probably more interesting to get into specifics like is Guy Chambers' songwriting 'authentic'? [/quote] Much as I personally don't like the heavily manufactured modern day Opportunity Knocks stuff, this type of arguement can quickly fall apart and become meaningless. Who are we to say that Guy Chambers' songwriting isn't 'authentic'! He wrote good pop songs that connected to a huge cross-section of the public, who bought them without being told to by Simon Cowell! Surely that makes them authentic pop(ular) songs?

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1332173411' post='1584274'] I think it is a case of manufactured over organic. If the impetus comes from the creativity of individuals who are in the bands, then there is a level of integrity that is missing when the 'band' are the front for a corporate hit making machine. [/quote] Back on topic - I would agree with Bilbo.....

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1332198392' post='1584842'] As has already been pointed out, 'authenticity' is going to be a contested concept. If one were considering the 'authenticity' of Led Zeppelin, it might be worth examining the sequence: Muddy Waters, You Need Love (credited: Willie Dixon) [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM8_HuQ0b34[/media] The Small Faces, You Need Loving (credited: Ronnie Lane, Steve Marriot) [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpnF62TNYoM[/media] [/quote] Actually, you could say that Led Zep were authentically following in the tradition of their blues forebearers by stealing earlier songs and making them their own! I mean, who wrote 'Dust My Broom', Elmore James or Robert Johnson?? Answer, neither - Johnson adapted the song from some earlier bluesman (and who's to say that that guy didn't get it from someone else) and adapted it just as Elmore James adapted RJ's version! This has always happened throughout the history of music.....

Just sold my Stingray to Gus - nice guy, easy to deal with, nae problems at all..........

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' timestamp='1332099924' post='1583321'] Odd that Bonham gets all the attention, given that Bill Ward was clearly no slouch. [/quote] To be fair, I don't think that Ward was really in the same class or as influential as Bonham

Both great, not too mention influential bands - LZ in particular are probably my favourite band..... Funnily enough, every decent drummer that I know seems to worship the ground that Bonham no longer walks upon!