BigRedX

I'm starting this thread because one of my bands shared the stage with a tribute act at the weekend and TBH I was less than impressed with the whole set up. I'm wondering if it's just me as a musician, and the fact that one of the original band was a massive influence on my playing, being too picky; or if I'm justified in my concerns. First off I do have to say that I'm not really interested in tribute bands (or covers bands in general) as either a musician or a punter so that might be colouring my views. Over the years I've been lucky enough to be able to see most of the bands that I really like in the days when they were still young and hungry, and for those that I missed there are always the records or CDs, and even now there are new exciting and interesting bands, whose music appeals to me, appearing all the time, so I don't really need the nostalgia. The band in question were a Joy Division tribute. I had a chance to see Joy Division at what turned out to be their penultimate gig, but turned it down in order to go to Sheffield to see Vice-Versa and Clock DVA, thinking that there would always be another opportunity to see Joy Division but I might not get the chance to see Vice-Versa again. How wrong I was... Also anyone who has seen or heard my band recently will probably have spotted that Peter Hook continues to be a massive influence on my bass playing. So for the tribute... The good. The singer had Ian Cutis nailed in pretty much every respect - the voice and the look complete with the thousand yard stare and manic "arm dancing". He is obviously the star of the show and rightly so. However the rest of the band not so much. While the drummer and guitars had the correct Man At C&A look, the bass player had either missed the memo or just hadn't bothered. He looked like he'd stepped out of some late 90s nu-metal band complete with inappropriate metal band bass. While I don't expect obsessive attention to detail with the instruments, if you are tributing someone with an iconic look and performance then IMO you really need to make more of an effort at least with the clothes. I don't know if he was a stand-in for their regular bass player (I don't think so), but absolutely nothing about him including his playing style was in any way reminiscent of Peter Hook. He may have played mostly the right notes but the feel was wrong and this was especially noticeable on Transmission and Love Will Tear Us Apart. If I was in this band I'd have been embarrassed to have been seen on stage with him. I think for this band in particular they had made the basic mis-assumption that Joy Division songs are easy to play. Admittedly by the time of Ian Cutis' demise the band were still quite basic in their general musical abilities, but they had each developed a unique playing style that can make covering the songs properly less than straight forward. So while the singer's performance was obviously the product of hours in front of the mirror, the others really hadn't done their homework. The guitar was much too distorted most of the time, and the drummer was noticeably struggling with the 16ths hi-hat patterns and the more up-tempo songs. For all his other faults the bass player had a reasonably authentic tone, but only because the venue's bass amp wasn't working and so I let him use my bass rig and had him going through my slightly modified version of Peter Hook's actual "Salford Rules" Helix Patch. Otherwise he would have been going straight into a standard bass amp or direct to the PA with no effects. So as a musician, a fan of the original band and their bass player in particular, am I being too critical? The rest of the audience seemed to like them well enough. As an audience member what should I expect from a tribute band? Should it be as close as possible to going to see the "real thing" both musically and visually? I'm happy for the bands to take advantage of advances in technology to make the performance sound better. I certainly don't want the typical late 70s and early 80s live experience of ropy FoH sound and almost inaudible vocals that plagued most of the gigs I went to in smaller venues at the time. However I'm someone who thinks that the visual aspect of a gig is probably as important as the musical one. If the tribute band haven't made the effort to at least wear the right clothes, does that not simply make them a covers bands with a very limited repertoire? I know that there's a number of you on here who play in tribute bands. How far musically and visually do you think you need to go? What does your audience think? Are you genuinely fans of the original band or is it just another paying gig? Other than my gripes about the band that started this all off, I'm trying not to be critical but to understand what a tribute band audience actually want.

I currently play in two goth/post-punk bands, say to more... In the 80s I was in a synth-pop band a while the tunes were up-tempo and some were even in a major key, the lyrical matter was unrelentingly dark. Songs about war, suicide, awful religious attitudes to disability, drug addiction, stalking and other less than healthy obsessions and generally futility of existence.

One of the main features of Fenders is that they were designed to be able to be made (and sold) cheaper than Gibsons and Rickenbackers.

If this bass is in otherwise good original condition - especially if it it still has the Shaftesbury branded TRC - it is probably worth more than £100. Unless you intend to keep it forever and gig it regularly, any modifications you make (especially non-reversible ones) will devalue it should you ever want to resell it and you'll probably find yourself mocked in the eBay forum on this site should you do so. Without seeing the actual bass it's impossible to give a 100% definitive answer, but I'd consider getting the pickup issues sorted out in the least intrusive way possible, and if it then turns out to be not for you, you should make a decent profit when you sell it which will allow you to get something that you will use. Paging @Bassassin

And just to prove there is always an exception to the rule: I've been fitting Schaller Straplocks to my instruments since the mid 80s and have never had one fail. I've owned one bass that had Dunlops fitted from the factory and one of them failed terminally within 3 months of buying the bass. They were replaced with a set of Schallers before the next gig. The majority of problems with Schallers that I have seen reported are down to either user error or expecting poorly-made counterfeit items to withstand the same use as the real thing.

But the OP has already fitted the Schaller. Besides the Dunlops aren't any better, just different.

How good are your IEMs? Many cheap drivers exhibit harmonic peaks which make some notes sound out of tune. The last place I worked had a nasty radio/CD system with terrible speakers. Some CDs just sounded horribly out of tune when played on it.

If the drop tune is done by digital processing, the laws of physics are going to be against you no matter how or what you play.

I think in this case events have just conspired against us when playing at this venue. On the previous occasion the weather was atrocious. At least one of the band who had been booked to play the night before our gig had been unable to get there due to being snowed in. This time around our gig coincided with THE main goth/post-punk event the month - Carpe Noctum in Leeds at the Lending Room, and while there is a healthy audience for our music in the North of England, and I know that as a punter if I had to choose between 3 or 4 reasonably well-known bands at an excellent venue in Leeds complete with a great club night after the live music, or 2 bands (only one I'd heard of) in the back room of a pub in Gateshead, I know which gig I'd be favouring. If I was a promoter I wouldn't be putting on a goth gig the same night as Carpe Noctum unless it was for some really well-known band at a venue in London.

Are you sure that you've only transposed that up 1 semi-tone. The singer sounds like Mini Mouse, compared with the version I'm vaguely familiar with. Even if you do work out the key for the main part of the song, how do you know that it doesn't change for this particular part or that a note from outside of the key was used because it sounded better? Use your ears and play the notes that you think sound right.

Unless you are intending to create new parts for the song rather than following what's on the definitive recording, does it matter?

Next gig for me is with In Isolation at Ivory Blacks in Glasgow on Saturday 18th May, supporting Joy Division tribute band "Shadowplay".

Looking at the video, if it's not possible to make the back and front joint up, then I wouldn't both with the back at all. Leave it plain white and maybe extend the checks from the front a bit further around the sides.

Unfortunately because this is also the computer I use for my work, Firefox which appears to be the only browser whose updates are not limited by the OS (so far), is reserved for an important single-use function, and I am unwilling to use it for other tasks.

But the OP has a Headrush which should be producing all the "colour" they need. The amp and speakers in this case should just be there to make it suitably loud.

With In Isolation at the Black Bull in Gateshead on Saturday. This is great gig but the last two times it's been rather poorly attended, with this time probably due to to Eurovision and several other high-profile goth gigs up north. Despite that those that did turn up seemed to enjoy it and some were even dancing all the way through the set. Sold some CDs afterwards and had several people asking when the new songs are likely to be released. Special mention to the support band Machiner who were absolutely brilliant, and by far the most interesting and enjoyable new band I've seen for some time. Go and check them out on your streaming or download service of choice. There's a good chance that we'll be sharing the bill with them again in the future. The whole gig was video'd so hopefully I'll have some visuals to post later.

I'm on 13.1.2 which is the most up-to-date version my OS (10.13.6) supports. Until I can afford a new Mac (unlikely any time soon, even ignoring all the other things I'm going to have to upgrade as well) I'm going to be stuck with less and less functionality. If I ever unexpectedly disappear from Basschat it will most likely be because a forum upgrade has removed my ability to view them, rather than something more serious.

Can someone post a photo fro those of us who don't have Facebook?

Does it need to look like a conventional bass rig? If not any good quality FRFR powered PA speaker will do. I have an RCF745 which has proved more than adequate for the two times I have needed to use it to supply bass guitar FoH for the audience, as well as on-stage for me. Also PA speakers generally have better dispersion characteristics than a conventional bass rig which means that you can be quieter on stage and still produce plenty of volume FoH. The last time I used my conventional bass rig without PA support I had to be so loud to get the right FoH mix that I could barely hear the rest of the band.

Looks like a problem with my version of Safari.

Tried putting a Spotify preview in a post this morning and get the following: Application error: a client-side exception has occurred (see the browser console for more information). The link I'm trying to add to the post is https://open.spotify.com/album/31GrE2G6NnPRyx8QKsMgex?si=9l1cv3tvQ2uE_Vw26YBKWg Is this a Spotify or Forum problem? It worked last time I did it so I suspect one or the other has changed something since then.

Machiner - The Sound Of Disappearing. Great band who supported In Isolation at our Gateshead gig on Saturday. This song was probably the highlight of the set for me: Spotify link wouldn't display as it usually does...

True. But you don't need to. The Helix isn't going to suddenly stop working if you don't update the firmware. The functionality on the Boss unit that requires Bluetooth or a computer connection seems like it might be quite important to some people. Having been bitten in the past by products that promised additional functionality through firmware/software updates that never materialised (Tascam I'm looking at you), I will only make my purchasing decisions based on what the product will do at the moment I buy it. I would still be as happy with my Helix even if it was still on the firmware it came with 6 years ago. All those updates are just a bonus IMO.

Right, I've watched the video and for me the most surprising thing was Rick Beato's generally positive comments. Other than that there was nothing new. The sky still isn't falling. From everything I have seen AI composition is still very much at the stage most of us were at when we were writing our first few songs, with our primary influences still very obviously on show, and the problem isn't that AI is taking away from musicians and composers, but more that it is likely to be sued for plagiarism. This for me is why AI music in the way that it is currently being marketed is not ready for public consumption and should not really be in the public domain. Even the very derivative output still requires a lot of well thought out user input to get anything close to original. That part was conveniently glossed over in the video. Admittedly as musicians and composers we're going to be more critical than the average listener and sometimes we forget that music isn't as important to a lot of people and definitely nowhere near as important these days as it was when most of us were teenagers in the 50s, 60s 70s and 80s. So the output of AI music generation systems may well be acceptable for those for whom music is simply there because the alternative would be unpalatable silence. However these people are not our audience and never will be our audience. There's a far more realistic video about trying to compose just using AI tools that I saw recently. The biggest thing I took away from that is just how far AI still has to go before it comes remotely close to being able to make the artistic and technical decisions that composers and sound engineers make all, the time without really being aware of them. IIRC the only AI components that made the final cut were some of the lyric generation and a voice replacer to make the vocals sound like Dua Lipa and even then the composer had to input a real singer who already sounded close before they got acceptable results. Everything else was discarded in favour of human generated content. Where AI music is going to have an impact soon is "library music" and if I was a composer in this area I'd be looking at repositioning myself as an "AI Wrangler". In the same way that many keyboard players and producers in the 70s and 80s had people behind the scenes to program synth sounds, and understand and work all that new technology in the studio and at gigs, there will be new opportunities for those who have the skills to come up with usable and appropriate AI music output in the quickest possible time. For the rest of us the sky still isn't failing.

I'm going to. However the fact that he's mentioned in the title says to me a lot about the sort of audience it's going to be aimed at.