Kiwi

18 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

I'd love to know how they do that. I find it very hard to believe one (or a few) companies have discovered a way to make characterless pickups.

Not characterless so much as adjusted.  Manufacturers who claim flatter response pickups will typically engineer the pickups so that the inherent peak that all pickups have is shifted to a part of the frequency spectrum which isn't as audible.  Alembic soapbar pickups (AXY but also Fatboy) also have low windings for a flatter and broader response and, while it means lower output, the idea was that the lack of gain would be boosted by the onboard active electronics.  Flatter response pickups are also ideal for filter based eqs so it all kind of ties together in a well thought out package, even if the actual engineering approach and some of the parts they use are getting a bit long in the tooth. 

18 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

       Not sure.  They didn't stick with it for very long - it didn't do it any harm (still great basses and undeniably Wal) but also presumably didn't show any major advantage either and must have added cost and complexity. 

Especially if they didn't use it properly so never got the full benefit!  It seems like they treated it like a layer of fibreglass.

On 21/03/2022 at 00:46, funkle said:

 

I agree with you it's not the Wal tone in that video. Hence more testing...

 

My main working theories are either the Wal pickups are flat response and the system they are built into is extremely mid focused, or the pickups are so voiced that the platform they are built into is nearly irrelevant. (I think of Stingrays when I say this). The pickup makers I spoke to think that the Wal pickups are fairly even in response without large resonant peaks. That leaves us with the other theory, for now. (I've ignored the effect of the body but may yet have to come to that in time). 

 

I must admit I started off from the same place as you before this @Kev, but having had a Wal in my hands, I firmly disagree now about the effect of the neck. The strings really feel so different when plucked on a Wal neck compared to a Fender neck that I cannot help but feel that there is something significant happening to how the strings vibrate when plucked. As an extreme example of a similar effect, the Modulus bass I owned had the stiffest neck I have ever felt, and the strings felt super taut (in spite of actual string tension being similar to other instruments). Notes just popped off that bass, and it had a very cool mid-focused kind of tone which sounded amazing with EMG pickups. (Now why did I sell it...) 

 

Anyway...since it's easily testable, we'll find out one way or the other soon enough...

Nuno... is that you? 

On 17/03/2022 at 06:56, fleabag said:

Isn't tick tock for under 15's  ?

In the west, perhaps but it's also now the most popular website in the world.  More popular than Google, even.  It does some sinister things as an app though, I refuse to install it on any of my phones.

29 minutes ago, funkle said:

Ibanez Soundgear and Yamaha TRBX multi-laminate necks are quite skinny, 19.5mm at first fret going to 21.4mm at 12th fret.

The earlier Ibanez Soundgear basses at least can be a bit whippy because they're too thin...despite laminated necks, which kind of supports Andy's suggestions about depth. 

32 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Mind you, judging the best combinations takes a hefty dose of guesswork... 

 

Or a huge amount of experience with a very limited number of species.  I don't really trust luthiers who use too many species in their builds, they can't or don't guarantee any particular outcome tonally.  Unless they use loads of laminates and then the outcome tends to lack character.

4 hours ago, funkle said:

I'm not sure how to measure the angle on the V shape carve of the neck. It's quite significant.

One of these perhaps?

13 hours ago, funkle said:

I'm going make a bet that another key ingredient here is the stiffness of the neck raising the resonant frequency enough to give the sound a significant boost in the mids, giving at least some of the Wal 'punch'. That, plus rosewood or ebony boards, is part of the 'recipe'. It's testable, so let's do it. (As an aside, I note Paul Hermann flat out refuses to do maple fretboards on custom Wal orders, though Pete Stevens did do some during his time. I wonder if this is because it messes with the Wal recipe too much? Ah well, speculative....)

I'd suggest stiffness of the fingerboard plus enough softer wood in the neck to dampen undesirable frequencies without so much it compromises structural rigidity.  In terms of wood anything other than ebony would be a compromise.  But Richlite might work as well and be both potentially cheaper and more convenient than faffing with phenolic resin.

For the laminates you'll almost certainly need some maple in there but there's always a risk that hard maple will be too stiff and dominate things.  Flamed maple laminated in a wenge neck (used often by AGC and Sei amongst others) sound fabulous to me but the wenge can make the upper mids sound a bit boxy which might take you away from the Wal sound a little.  So probably following Yamaha's recipe of 3x maple and 2x mahogany - something they've employed for well over 40 years in both basses and guitars, might be the way forward. 

You could also experiment with a 2mm graphite laminate under the fingerboard if you can, to see what impact it has on overall stiffness. It's got a little bit of flex in longer, narrower lengths but is very rigid across narrow widths and it's not prohibitively expensive to buy it in sheets anyway.  I've been making control panel and trem plates from it recently and it's possible to use woodworking tools on it if I take it easy.

8 hours ago, funkle said:

My conclusion, rightly or wrongly, is that the stiffness of the neck must have a significant part to play in how the strings feel/vibrate, and therefore affect the sound. So perhaps the multi-laminate build to the neck contributes even more than I thought. 

I think playability is all about the neck.  Later Wal necks also have a secret laminate of graphite under the fingerboard which contributes to stiffness, in addition to the wood laminates.  If anything the wood in a bass neck dampens and filters while the fingerboard provides rigidity - Vigier necks are a great example of optimal rigidity (90/10 system plus phenolic fingerboard) while still allowing enough wood in construction to provide some character via dampening and yes, they have a very mid prominent sound.

However I've found that beyond about five neck laminates can tend to homogenise the sound.  Of course there are exceptions like the Warwick Thumb which uses a highly unique combination of wood laminates but a load of boutique basses out featuring combinations of walnut, maple, purpleheart and mahogany in seven laminates (along with laminated bodies) sound more or less the same as one another, regardless of electronics.

I've long maintained the view that making musical instruments is a lot like a recipe - the ingredients require balancing against one another for an appetising outcome.  In the case of necks, there's a balance in construction for playability vs construction for timbre vs construction for convenience.  Some structural in-efficiency helps add character, too. 

Graphite necked basses are not all alike, either.  Some, especially the early ones from the late seventies/early 80's, are over designed and I like how most of the dampening comes from body wood while the stiffness allows super low action with the right fret dressing.  But later on in the mid eighties to mid nineties, some graphite necks had phenolic (aka Bakelite) fingerboards that were too stiff resulting in a brittle sounding bass (classic Bartolini soapbars and an SWR amp help tame things a bit).  Likewise, some suffered from fingerboards that weren't stiff enough due to not mixing the phenolic resin properly and some necks became bowed.  Modulus were notorious for this with the necks they made for Musicman and Alembic as well as their own instruments, but Status experienced issues with one mix of resin briefly in the mid nineties as well.

6 hours ago, funkle said:

So, one breakthrough last night was trying different kinds of distortion to make the signal dirtier. I suppose I’m trying to emulate the effect @NickA(and @skelfas well, in a long and very helpful telephone conversation) have both advised about - the distortion caused by the EQ circuit built into the Mark 1/2/3 basses. 

@Passinwind this is what we were discussing, also.

2 hours ago, rodney72a said:

 

This one?

 

https://www.vintage-guitar.de/detailsvintage_4614_FENDER-Precision-Bass.html

 

 

It's even got the note addressed to him personally! 

7 hours ago, KennysFord said:

Hi...
I used to frequent these parts a lot 5 years ago ish, quit playing and since then have lost my old sign in info...This is a new profile.
I 've been dutifully paying my yearly subs since then, the last payment was 2 weeks ago and would like access to my old account if possible...
Please can you tell me who i can talk to then i can try and get this sorted for me...
Many thanks.

Yes, drop me a PM with as much info as you can remember and I'll have a dig about to see what shows up.

Pete Stevens, one of the electronics engineers who built Clive's designs is fairly active on the Facebook Trace Elliot group and helps out members with technical requests.

Would you mind posting a link to a post you are specifically trying to edit?  

2 hours ago, Dood said:

 

Not fretless YET, but I can hear from playing a few fretted models that a fretless would sing! Lovely basses.

 

I'd also love to own a Pedulla PentaBuzz. I've played a couple in the past, one at an original Bassworld Bass Bash and it was insanely nice - it wasn't yours was it @Kiwi?

Yes was it that one in a pub just outside Northampton... 2006-ish?  I still have it BTW but it doesn't get as much play time as it deserves! 

2 hours ago, Boodang said:

Oh, and forgot to say the moral of this particular story; the best bass to fend off an attack from an irate vocalist is of course...  defender.

FIFY

I have another one: 

The one and only time I ever depped was for a friend,  someone who used to work at the Bass Centre and is now a reasonably respected touring musician.  

It was a blues band but I didn't find out it wasn't an ordinary blues band until I'd already agreed to do the gig in Surrey.  Oh no, they played blues song that were 'extra'.  I had two weeks notice and one rehearsal to learn 13 tracks that includes gems by Robben Ford with sudden starts and stops, changes in tempo and various extensions to the standard I  IV V chord structure.  

I managed to get my head around the tracks by the time we had the rehearsal and while it was shaky I survived.  

The actual gig was a 90 minute living hell as @obbm, who showed up to watch, bore witness to.  They played the songs faster live than in rehearsal, my nerves were almost debilitating and, as I missed various cues, my confidence utterly flat lined.  Towards the end, I was dying in full public view, just wishing the earth would swallow me up. 

The band were incredibly gracious about it...to the point of apologising and insisting on paying me their share of the (tiny) fee.  I felt incredibly guilty about letting them down even though I had done as best I could. But after that experience, I swore I'd never dep again.  And I haven't. 

None of my basses are keepers - I'd let them all go for the right amount of cash (and in one case, we would be talking a very significant amount of cash).  Although...the Spector NS5CR would be hard to let go if the modifications I have planned are completed...simply because no one else would probably want it until they'd actually played it.  It's the only bass I've managed to buy where I had that 'ooh!' reaction on playing it...I missed out on the handful of other instruments I instantly bonded with.

Some time in 2006 I had a gig with the motown band I was in at a bar on site at RAF base in Northcote, NE London.  A band that @Beedster stepped in to replace me after I moved on.  It was a 20 minute drive from Shepherds Bush and I managed to get to the gig about half an hour before we went on.  Everything under control.  My girlfriend at the time even decided to tag along just to hear the band as well.  So I started the unloading process...speakers...amp...cables....and...

No 1979 Musicman Stingray.

I turned to my gf and asked in slightly concerned tones

Me: 'F***!  Where's my bass?!'

Her: 'You didn't pack it?'

Me: 'You carried it out for me, remember? You were in the car when I closed the car boot so I assumed you packed it.  Where did you leave it?!'

Her: 'I left it leaning against the fence next to the car ready for you to put in the car.'

Me: '!?*!!%#@!'

There in followed a twenty minute mercy dash back to my flat only to find nothing outside.  I frenetically searched the apartment and was about to give up when there was a knock at the door.  I sloped down the stairs to find my Russian neighbour two doors down from me, holding my bass.  Apparently he'd caught a shifty looking couple walking off with it.  He pulled them up and they claimed someone had left it out for recycling but thankfully my neighbour knew it wasn't the kind of bass that someone recycles  I nearly cried with relief but there was no time.  Back in the car for another dash up the A40 back to the gig and I made it...ten minutes late, sweating like a pig but with bass in hand.  

Guitars (already have six axes and a collection of classic, rack based preamps.)

But I was a drummer before taking up bass and I often wonder if that is where my heart truly belongs.  I took up bass after wrist injuries playing volleyball at high school and it was a hell of a lot more accessible cost wise and pragmatically. 

Still there's nothing quite like creating the pocket that everyone else sits in and then locking in with a decent bass player.

I've modded the site rules.  Let's give it 6 months and see how it goes.

16 hours ago, LeftyJ said:

Sorry for the late reply, I kinda overlooked this part of the forum for some time. I still have mine, and I must admit I haven't played it in a while because the Koch Classic SE6 took its place in the spotlights, and more recently the Mini Colossal stole what was left of its limelight. Your post just had me give it another go, and I have to admit I've been too harsh with my criticism. In fact, I'm grinning from ear to ear playing my Strat through the TSA5 right now. It's not going anywhere anytime soon 

 

It still is the most fun I've ever had for €100 I guess!

One of mine recently gave up the ghost - a resistor fried due to a crack in the PCB...and this amp has only had home use.  The PCB can't be repaired.  So now down to one and a hand wired 5F2 Princeton Tweed clone I picked up here a couple of years ago for almost the same money.

I've given up using a lot of effects for bass for the same reasons.  A Line 6 M5, Future Impact and FEA Labs comp is all I need...at least until Source Audio come out with a synth pedal that does better arpeggiation.

Guitar on the other hand is a nightmare.  There's so much to stay on top of with cable maintenance and power supplies - not helped by a few manufacturers using non standard power supplies (looking at you Effectrode).  When I eventually get back to the UK and shift the kit in storage over to where I live, I'm going to move to a rack based practice set up with multi effects.  

12 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

anyway, hope you're on the mend @Kiwi 

Thanks Luke, we're getting there.  Less wincing this morning.

19 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I wonder if Basschat reached out to Rickenbacker and tried to come to some understanding... if the answer was about speed of take down of fakers there presumably could be agreements RE how quickly things happened that would suit everyone ... or something. 

I believe the course of action is governed by legal process in the UK.  They'd have to notify us of any infringements first and defiance or a lack of action on our part before threatening legal action.  Beyond that point it could get a little tactical.  I'm not clear on whether they'd take a tactic of issuing a general notice covering all current and future infringements, which would pass the burden and responsibility of policing onto us if we accepted it.  And, whether we could legitimately turn that assertion down on the basis that we don't have in-depth knowledge of Rickenbacker products (which we don't). I'd like to think there's a halfway house where we do our reasonable best based on the general knowledge we have to hand but don't claim any expertise. I was also thinking about whether it might be an idea to set up a dedicated Rickenbacker only subforum to save having to scroll through loads of listings for other items.  

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Indeed, as you should, which is why you shouldn't start producing and distributing rickenbacker copies yourself, however, if you sell a private instrument which you are not claiming is a rickenbacker, you are not infringing. The only problem is when it is a fake (ie, you are claiming it is a rickenback when it isn't), and how many fake fenders have probably gone through the site over the years? I think it is easier to spot a fake ric then a fake fender.

Fair enough. I'm really not in the right frame of mind to deep dive on this at the moment.  I have surgery 9am tomorrow morning and I keep being interrupted by nurses and doctors with with things to do, blood samples to give and forms to sign.  

My position is I'm open minded about lifting the ban. But it's conditional. 

But I think it's going to mean the mods do more work to police the classifieds which kind of undoes the recent coding we implemented to reduce that burden. 

And while it could be claimed fake fenders may have been sold through BC, Fender haven't had the same attitude towards enforcing their IP rights.

What nobody knows right now is whether Rickenbackers attitude has changed given Hall's perceived retirement.

@Hamster you probably have the clearest view of things.  Any thoughts? 

I'll jump back in, probably sometime Saturday if my head has cleared by then.