Bilbo

Great - lets all advocate for idiocy. I suggest a Master Class on the note of E, followed by a session on A and, for the more advanced player, a week long seminar on D. We can then look at the gaps between them and then we can groooooove. My advice - never listen to anyone that argues that doing less work will make you a better player.

What I liked about his duo CD was it wasn't a 'bass' cd but a cd of great songs played in duet with a bass and a singer. Particularly liked Aaron Neville's 'Stardust' and Cheryl Bentyne's 'Angel Eyes'

[quote name='alexclaber' post='234047' date='Jul 7 2008, 11:59 AM']but almost like a jazz drummer in his approach.[/quote] Steady on!

Tough question this because the conscious contributions that individuals have made through their playing has primarily been to the music they make and not to 'bass playing' per se. Any influence they have had on the bass play fraternity has been peripheral to their core business but, in some cases, has become greater than the popularity of their [i]actual[/i] music (Wooten is a great example). But its not their fault. Our 'I want, I get' culture extends to musicianship as much as it does Nike trainers and X-Boxes. Learners like the sound of Flea, Fieldy, Jaco, Claypool and buy DVDs and 'tab' books that give them the secrets of how to play like their idols. Most bass playing is not that hard to execute; compared to a rudimentary piano piece, for instance, the technical chops required to play like Flea are a joke. The consequence is that bass players particularly can develop what appear to be quite sophisticated technical skills without having the education and discipline required to know [i]when[/i] to used them. The technical skills get applauded at jam sessions, gigs etc and the learner starts to receive affirmation about their developing technique and focusses on this aspect of their playing during their practice time. Not harmony, melody, rhythm, reading, orchestration or arranging - technique for its own sake. The most negatively influential bass players are, therefore, the ones whose playing, when copied, delivers the WOW factor to a developing player without the need to study properly. The low input, high return stuff. I don't blame them; I blame the part of the industry that sells these superficial 'quick fix' solutions to gullible kids. [b]I blame the guy that invented 'tabulation'. [/b] Remember: its not the notes that matter but the relationships between them.

I am an Eden Metro man and use it for Jazz - I have no problem with warmth and find the eq versatile enough for anything I have ever thought of. I find the secret is in the bass and in having strings that are older than some of the players on this forum!

Latin gig in Peterborough - dogs breakfast in terms of organisation and so, after starting to play 3 hours after we should have, we got home at 6 a.m. All to an audience that numbers less than 30. And the in-house PA gave us a dreadful on-stage sound - too loud and no definition. Al round sucksville.

When I was into metal and seeing them live (Paul Di'annio was still the singer - it was 1981), I though Harris was the DBs and, like you, was astonished by his fingerstyle playing. But, after plugging away for a couple of years, it became apparent that this was nothing special and all it took was a bit of practice, proper set up of amp and bass and the development of stamina. There's no secret, just keep at it.

www.narbeth.com/Halesworth2007/AlbinoCubana/Albino How do I look?

I'm gonna come at this from another angle. I accept what other people have said about basses, amps, eqs, fingers etc but I think that, in order to be in control of your sound, you need to deal with the following: your ears - your ability to recognise the constituent parts of a sound, recognise what is right and wrong about the sound you are hearing and being able to replicate the details of your sound using the available technology (i.e your sound is only your sound if you can recreate it at a pinch - otherwise, its just a sound) your mind - you need to develop an adult relationship with your critical senses (how does it sound tonight? Is it as good as it can be with the available gear? have I soundchecked properly? A bad attitude to this area of your practice will undermine your sound - the most obvious example being 'I'll use this amp because its lighter to carry despite the fact that it doesn't sound as good as the other one' - understandable but potentially counter-productive) where you set up on stage the room, the nature of the stage/floor coverings etc the drummers sound (in jazz, the wrong ride cymbal can KILL the bass sound) the guitar players sound the piano/keyboard players sound the room the room the room oh, and if I forget to mention it, the room. Learn to control the rooms you play in and you will find nirvana (please, no Cobain jokes).

Absolutely - a 'who is the slowest bass player in jazz' thread. Charlie Haden! Did you ever hear Marc Johnson's 2nd Bass Desires LP 'Second Sight'? There is a tune on there (can't remember which) which is the slowest groove I have ever heard. Much harder than be-bop. That kind of feedback from Mike Walker would make my day. As Jim Mullen once said of me; 'who?'

PM'd Rodby is another of my favourites. I love going back to some of his Metheny stuff and just listenig to his tone and time feel. I have a love/hate relationship with the Metehny Group cd 'We Live Here' because of teh core rhythms but Rodby's bass sound on that cd is awesome. Like Steve Swallow, he gets the job done without the unnecessary fireworks. THey can burn if they need to but recognise that it is rarely the most musical option. I wish I had their discipline! In fact, I wish a lot more people had it!!!

Some sort of stereo recorder (2 channel minimum) with two PZM microphones, one each side of the room. Have used that set-up many times and the overall sound is highly credibleand useful for listening back to a performance (although not good enough to release commercially - unless Jaco is on it, then you can release ANYTHING, however crap it sounds).

That's too weird to even contemplate. I think we have just both been conditioned by periods in Cardiff playing with Andy Maule. He just wants everyone to be Steve Rodby Anyway, you're a pro. What are you doing up this early?

I always found NHOP to be one of those people that played clever for the sake of it and not because it was musically valid - bit like John 'I'm gonna stick this 32-note fill in now whether you like it or not' McLaughlin. I also found Pederson's tone to be a bit thin/whiny But, when he keeps a lid on it, its cool. Just not one of my faves.

Like Hejira, love Shadows and Light. Agree that this is some of Jaco's most musical work (less testosterone!).

Yep - would you believe it is in the cassette player on my desk at work as we speak. Those string arrangements are great (I hadn't read the cover so hadn't clocked it was Mendoza - I did recognise Hancock and Shorter but no-one else - didn't even know it was done in the UK). I still rate 'Shadows and Light' as one of my top five of all time (LP not CD - the best tracks were omitted from the cd).

Dave Holland Quartet - Extended Play - this band are monster! Also his Critical Mass cd - different drummer but the drive is still there... Anything else by Dave Holland - he is one of the most consistent voices in jazz... Andrew Hill - Black Fire (Roy Haynes on drums - such energy)... Charlie Hunter - Right Now Move - some great grooves a la Medeski, Martin & Wood but with Curtis Fowlkes on trombone and John Ellis on sax/bass clarinet. Fernkky! Mingus Ah Um - how great is that CD?

I agree mcgraham. Where I differ from others is that I see that fact as an opportunity (this is not about my wanting to do 10 minute jazz odysseys). If they aren't really listening, why are we pandering to some bizarre collective sense of 'what they want'? If you are going to do covers, do interesting covers, do covers that stimulate AND educate (there are 1,000s), do covers that challenge people a little or a lot but do it knowingly. What I think people should NOT do is to take the top 20 covers of all time and just regurgitate them year on year on year (tweaked or otherwise). Last week I did 'Pick Up The Pieces' by the Average White Band (1974), 'Street Life' by the Crusaders (1979), 'Young Hearts Run Free' (1976), 'For Once In My Life' (1968), 'Knock On Wood' (1978) etc, etc. You know the drill. There must have been a million great (and very popular ) songs that have seen the light of day during the 20 to 30 years that have passed since then and yet we all keep trotting out these pliocene relics. I have this discussion all the time with punters (not AT gigs but in work, social settings etc) and the general consensus is that these types of bands are tired and dated. I also know a lot of people think that these endless tribute bands are a joke without a punchline. I can't argue with them.

[quote name='ianrunci' post='229724' date='Jun 30 2008, 02:13 PM']Cover bands are just a different alternative to a DJ, I can't see that ever changing. And personally I would rather see musicians get the work rather than DJs[/quote] Agreed but two wrongs don't make a right. Some musicians and I () were discussing this on Saturday (we were playing a wedding and the thing was running late (never!!!) so we had time to kill and we were discussing the 'give them what they want' philosophy. The question was asked 'how many 'functions' have you gone to as a guest (not as a player) where there was band playing'. The average amongst the 5 of us was one every two years. So, we asked, how can anyone even begin to know what the audience 'wants' when they are a, never asked and b, guaged from only 4 gigs a decade per punter? Is there some sort of mass hysteria where if a crowd exceeds 12, it functions like the Borg Collective and only wants 'Ain't Nobody', 'Respect' and 'Son of a Preacher Man'? We should be told. Personally, I think we are deluding ourselves and selling our audiences short with this stuff (but, then again, you knew I thought that, didn't you).

[b]I WILL SURVIIIIIIIIIIIVE!!!![/b]

[quote name='ianrunci' post='229709' date='Jun 30 2008, 02:01 PM']Unfortunately thats the way life is now, people like convenience. I doubt it will change[/quote] I think it does, quite regularly. People are out there watching bands and then quickly become aware that they are seeing the same thing again and again and eventually stop going and stay at home with Cds, DVDs and YouTube. So the audience in 2008 is not the same audience as in 2005; they have all gone home to their iPods. As a musician and music fan who spends 100s of hours and 1000s of pounds a year on music, I am amazed at how rare it is to see something that I want to go out to see/hear. I think this dumbing down is undermining the potential of live music and is, in the long run, counter-productive....

Sorry (and I am not being aggressive or confrontational here ) but that sounds like a justification. The levels of creativity required to re-arrange a cover so it is different but still recognisable are real (remember the Yes version of Paul Simon's 'America'?) but re-arrangements of that level of sophistication are relatively rare. Being blunt, I hear very few even remotely creative 'versions' in any of the 4/5 covers bands I play in/dep for. The only 'creative' bits are the bits where noone knows what to do with the instrumental bridge where the original features a horn section. Its a bit like saying 'every burger is different. I try to ensure that the burger is cooked to the customers exacting requirements, adding the appropriate amount of lettuce or gherkin to each dish with a clear intention to achieve culinary excellence. Some people think this is easy'!

[quote name='tauzero' post='229565' date='Jun 30 2008, 11:24 AM']Sinead O'Connor didn't write "Nothing compares 2 U", Prince did. So she's just an uncreative hack. Mott the Hoople didn't write "All the young dudes", David Bowie did. So they're just uncreative hacks. Patti Smith didn't write "Because the night", Bruce Springsteen did. So she's just an uncreative hack.[/quote] Hardly the point, is it? Doing a cover when you write most of your own stuff is completely different to doing only ever doing covers. Doing covers that everyone else also does all of the time places people well into the realms of uncreative hackdom. I did a gig on Saturday, best paid one in a month. 'I Will Survive'; 'Angels'; 'Signed, Sealed Delivered' - all the hits. Professional? Yes. Competent? Yes. Creative? - in no way whatsoever. It's the MacDonaldisation of music. Do you want fries with that?

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='227234' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:47 AM']of course not... it's because punk is angry music and you can't dance to it... well, there's only two dances, the Pogo and the other "dance" consisted of running full tilt into the center of the crowd... people don't want punk at functions... punk is for the kids in sweaty little dives that stink of pee... where they can go and be "different"... and escape from the "normals".[/quote] Punk wasn't just about that - it was about saying why? It was about questioning the status quo. It made people realise that music mattered again, for different reasons than in the 60s and early 70s but that it could make a difference. It impacted on our whole culture; news, comedy, art, dance, photography, sculpture. I didn't like the music and still don't but the fact that people gave a s***, said No to racism and sexism, starting questioning their leaders was groundbreaking. But mediocrity always rises to the surface when people stop thinking or caring.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='227218' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:31 AM']OK fair play [i]that's[/i] artistic integrity along with some f***ing serious grooving,[/quote] Isn't it!!! I last saw DH with his Eubanks/Coleman/Smith line-up and loved it but this new band is monster - I am assuming that was Nate Smith on the video (i don't think it was Kilson but I could be wrong). I put 6 DH cds onto my MP3 player last week and am loving it (I think I have about 64 cds with DH on, the only person I have more of is Paul Chambers and that's only because I am researching his story for a book). Dave Holland is just SOOOO in there.