Bilbo

My point was simply that any discussion of the relative merits of a player or his work should be based on a reasoned argument and not just a casual 'he's sh*te'. If anyone here says that 'the importance of Tal thingumybob is, for instance, due to her gender not her playing which, while competent, is unremarkable', then I will listen to that argument and decide its validity as you did on my point. If someone just says she is crap or superb, I have nothing to thing about and will almost always dismiss the contribution as blunt and of no value. Don't just tell me, tell me why.

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='251964' date='Jul 31 2008, 12:04 PM']The people making the comments obviously think in their own minds that their own playing is better, when in reality it isn't.[/quote] No they don't. They know that they are not as capable as the people they criticise but, in order to increase their self esteem, they negate the value of the things they can't do in an effort to subconsciously justify the fact that they can't or won't do the work necessary to attain those skills. The tragedy is that they actually have to work astonishingly hard on their train of self-talk in order to maintain a belief in what they are saying.

I understand what you are saying, wombatboter, but I think you need to understand that all people are doing is poorly expressing their belief that the work of the artists under consideration is subjectively of little value to them. My personal take on these things is to draw on my own experience as a player and listener and to draw people's attention to the difference between valuing a piece of music and recognising the technical skills required to execute it. For a developing musician, it is easy to get into the space where 'hard' pieces of music are 'good' pieces of music, a fact that is palpably wrong. It is equally dangerous, however, for the uninformed to assume that a 'complex' piece of music is bad because it 'lacks emotion', 'fails to communicate' etc. The secret is to develop the critical sense required to recognise the value of a piece in its own right. It is equally not enough to say 'all music is good and I like it all'. The assessment of the intrinsic value of a piece of music is subjective but that doesn't mean that it serves no purpose to discuss it. Its just not helpful to use aggressive and unspecific terms like 's***e', 'b******s and cr*p. They contribute nothing to the debate other than stating a position.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='251894' date='Jul 31 2008, 10:40 AM']This is a strange attitude from someone who loves Jazz so much! Surely it should be "there's no logic to music, you just have to learn to groove like a cat who's in touch with his soul".[/quote] You really don't get jazz, do you?

[quote name='Mcgiver69' post='251759' date='Jul 30 2008, 11:52 PM']Music is art and by any means you can't talk about poor note choices when you are improvising.[/quote] Yes you can. There is a massive difference between a wrong note and a subjectively poor choice - the logic of any given line is determined by what comes before it and what comes after. Anyone familiar with any genre in music will be able to recognise the difference. If you go for a 6th and hit a sharp 5, its a wrong note. If you INTEND to play a sharp five and hit it, its not. It can still suck tho'

I had heard that you can use any power ouput amp with any power handling cab. If any of these combinations makes bad sounds then turn down and/or stop cranking the bass EQ excessively or damage may occur. At least, that was the gist of it.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='251174' date='Jul 30 2008, 11:43 AM']ba dum t tisss t t tisss t t tisss[/quote] Is that Roy Haynes?

Everyone knows you can't dance to jazz

Come on in!! The water's lovely!!

I don't have the name; I am only the hired help! Will let you know the outcome as and when.

You are, of course, entitled to disagree. My point was to suggest that people make a critical assessment of your position before moving on it. If they agree with you, then they, and they alone, are responsible for the outcome of any decisions informed by your submissions. That shouldn't take too long

Did a function gig in June at a MAJOR London landmark. Signed contract in the bag. Still didn't get paid and the promoter has done a runner with the £140 a head agreed fee. MU are on it but I don't expect to see a penny. The law is not set up for little people to recover little sums of money.

Jeff Berlins approaches the dichotomies that exist within music education with a completely open mouth.

[quote name='EntropicLqd' post='250003' date='Jul 28 2008, 10:02 PM']When I first started playing I was completely anti any suggestion of learning to read music. It was dull, boring, and I saw it as simply taking time away from playing bass. Now, almost 2 decades on, I am learning music theory and seriously considering learning to read music. Because I've reached the point where it will actually make me a better player. And understanding why some of the stuff I play naturally now sounds right would be useful. So while I sit in the "learn music your own way" camp, I will concede that if I'd had to learn to read music a long time ago (even 15 years ago) I'd definitely be better player than I am now.[/quote] The trouble with instruments like the bass is that people are encouraged to approach it casually and are offered all sorts of short cuts to perceived competence - 'play in a day' books can easily get someone up to playing a song all the way through in a relatively short time frame. Try that with a piano, a bassoon, violin or saxophone. Because of that, learners struggle to see the benefits of investing long hours in proper study. People all around them will start to justify their lack of investment with all sorts of statments about how proper study undermines your instinctive abilities, undermines your ability to play 'with feeling' etc. It is perfectly possible to play in a gigging band without any theory or 'proper' technique so people do. This affirms their 'I don't need to study' mentality and they proceed accordingly until one day, two years in or ten, they start to see the benefits they missed out on. By then, for many people, it is too late and domestic obligations prevent sustained study. I think the most important skill a new player can have is the development of a critical sense that allows them to recognise what is useful information that will help their progress as a player and what isn't. Who is giving you the right information. That way, whatever Jeff Berlin says can be critically analysed and informed decisions about the most appropriate way forward for a developing player can be made. Like most of us, JB can talk sense one minute and unmitigated b******S the next. We need to be able to recognise the difference.

Hello Bob. My name's Bob too! We should start a Club Built by Roberts

I pride myself on being able to swing on the electric (particularly as I grew up listening to the agreed wisdom that it can't be done) - it all depends on the tone and the other musicians. If the drummer and piano/guitar player I am playing with aren't in there, then there's not a lot I can do about it. But if they are in that pocket, I can swing like a swingy thing from Swingtown. Fortunately, most of the players I perform with nowadays are in there and the results are happening.

And Johnny Griffin last Friday.

Find a secondhand Eden Metro - Do it. Now.

And you have the freakiest avatar I have ever seen.... Welcome.

Every third myspace bulletin message I get is from Jeff Berlin seeking the contact details for someone he wants to gain reflected glory from. 'If I can get Andreas Bocelli to record one of my songs, I am made for life'...yeah, right. Just write something without the bass in mind and you've got a chance, Jeff.

Joe Beck was an American guitarist who had been notable in jazz for more than 30 years. Born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Beck also briefly flirted with rock music in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Beck played in a variety of jazz mediums, including jazz fusion, post bop, mainstream jazz and soul jazz. He played and recorded with numerous artists, including: Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Gil Evans, Duke Ellington, Buddy Rich, Paul Desmond, Maynard Ferguson, Woody Herman, Stan Getz, Ali Ryerson, Larry Coryell, Gene Ammons, Sergio Mendez, Antonio Carlos Jobim, Jimmy Bruno, Laura Nyro, Houston Person, Roger Kellaway, Richie Havens, Paul Simon, Joe Farrell, James Brown, David Sanborn and Gato Barbieri. Beck died in Woodbury, Connecticut on 22nd July, due to complications from lung cancer. So why Joe Beck mentioned on a bass fourm? In the early 1970s, Joe entered the hotel room of a double bass player he was working alongside and found him playing a newly acquired electric bass, a Gibson EB-0. He took the bass off the bass player and played it with a plectrum, ripping complex jazz lines and sophisitcated chords out of the instrument. The bass player, impressed at what he had seen Beck accomplish, ditched the double bass and has played the electric ever since and, what's more, he has played it with a plectrum. The bass player was Steve Swallow. Rest in peace, Joe.

STOOOOP before it tooo late.

When I get a chance (at work so no access to YouTube). I did work out Johnson's solo on Metal Fatique (the LP version) years ago - just a perfectly placed little solo - so I will have a listen. Saw JJ with AH in a church in Bristol about 80 years ago. Good gig as I recall. Johnson's highlights are with Wayne (no relation) Johnson tho': Arrowhead, Grasshopper and Everybody is Painting Pictures (Spirit Of The Dancer and Keeping The Dream Alive have a couple of Flim performances but the main events are the first 3 recordings). Bad hair, great sound!

If you can't get a decent set up for that kind of money, you aren't trying....

Did a function in a tin shed and it was HOOOOOOOT! I have never felt so ill - blinding headache, nausea but I still played the gig. When it ended, I collapsed with heat exhaustion. Never felt so ill in my life. Went to bed feeling like s**t, woke up fine. Hardest gig I have ever done.