jakenewmanbass

[quote name='rk7' timestamp='1374215566' post='2146452'] I'm fairly sure we have departed from the original post here chaps. It was a simple request for advice on where to find some good theory information. RK [/quote] Hi RK, I see no problem with the development of the conversation, if the OP needs further advice I'm sure he'll ask and I'm also sure it'll be forthcoming. I think some conversation on the merits of learning either formally or being an autodidact or both, can be helpful to the beginner, I started out exclusively learning from records, but at 20 realising that to be a pro required wider knowledge I went to music college and learned the other stuff, It's been utterly invaluable.

People that don't know what they are talking about but will talk anyway, will generally defend quite heavily when presented with people that really do know what they are talking about. The odd thing about music is that you can be very very good at playing but not have the theoretical background, there are times where you will need it, and times where you just use your ears. For my money, one is much better off having it all available. I've always said the ultimate test is how something sounds, if it sounds good it is good, no amount of theoretical knowledge or ignorance will alter that one jot.

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1374144548' post='2145706'] Forget scales mate. If you are just starting, as was said before, just listen to your favourite songs and slide around till you find the notes. Keep repeating as you learn more and more of the song. Scales are too much to comprehend if you are just starting [/quote] I can see that it's well intentioned, but it's really not helpful to suggest that anything is beyond anyone, especially when you don't know them. I've been teaching bass for 20+ years and I see beyond a shadow of a doubt that people that learn to understand what they are playing progress more quickly. Learning by ear is fantastic, but it's not the entire process.

when you follow this advice through E-F and B-C some fun explanations will begin

And if you move the whole thing up 1 fret it's Ab major, another fret and it's A major etc etc

[quote name='Plampers' timestamp='1374089220' post='2145230'] Well, I have learned the c major scale slowly this evening. I can even remember the notes by saying them aloud as I play. So by now i know this scale your saying I can start on the 3rd fret on E string( which is a g) and follow the pattern and that is also a major scale? [/quote] Yup you will come across the notes G A B C D E F# G it will be the same shape as the C Major, which is why you have to play an F#... keep that shape

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1374080288' post='2145101'] Right well I've memorised the letters from A to G and have learnt the numbers up to 13 but not including 8, 10 and 12. How am I doing? [/quote] Excellent good man... Now, realise that when playing a major scale you will conform to the following rules. Starting on G 3rd fret E string, use the following left hand fingering 24, 124, 134 applying the principal of one finger per fret and one step through the alphabet at a time. This will result in a basic truth being discovered, that is that the intervals (gaps or specifically frets) between the notes of any major scale are always the same. Therefore once you have learned the fingering pattern for 1 major scale you have learned it for them all (this is true of stringed instruments) You can apply this to any starting note on the bass, and if you take the time and trouble to carefully observe what notes you are playing whilst executing the above, you will discover that conforming to these rules reveals what flats or sharps any given key has, only open strings will interfere with seeing these rules but they can be learned quickly and separately. I anticipate people having some problems with this, I have simple answers to any questions arising (I've explained it to hundreds of students 1-1)

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1374013607' post='2144345'] Music theory in a nutshell. 2 minutes for Jake to write down what takes most people a lifetime to assimilate [/quote] Oi!! are you calling me a slow typer?? it took me 1.58 actually

Thanks for the elaboration dad, in fact we as bass players do often use 10ths, I just wanted to keep it as simple as possible for now... The major part of my message is that the basic ingredients of theory are kindergarten maths, and learning that is not nearly as difficult as learning to be able to lay down a killing bass line on a recorded song right 1st time and for take after take with the ability to change what you're doing on request from a producer (which is what I spent last monday doing )

It's as simple as the alphabet up to G and the numbers 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 11 and 13 realise from scales what notes you are playing then learn how chords are made. Then you have the ingredients to understanding what you are doing. It's pretty simple but it does seem to take some people a bit of time to make the connections with sounds...

Not the norm in my experience, I've done about 10 cruises, never more than 2 weeks and always as cabaret (so officer or passenger status, ranking is taken seriously, it actually matters to them) rather than the band, but even the musicians in full time employment on those ships were allowed a drink and even have crew bars. However, I [i]would[/i] say do not risk breaking rules on a cruise ship, you [i]will [/i]find yourself off at the next port.

I was playing at the Henley festival last night and the main stage attraction was the Beach Boys, what a show! Vocal harmonies were brilliant, stellar playing from all but in particular lead guitar and drums, and a raft of fab hits. They did a short version of 'God only knows' which gave me my first gig tingle in a while. Jamie Cullum tonight and Paloma Faith one night too, (I'm there all week) If you get a chance to see the BBs this summer do, well worth it.

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1370366065' post='2099821'] I might be able to do this, but I'm not going to contact Michael to ask him when the gig is. I think at the very least you have to give us the date, so that we don't waste his or our time. [/quote] Charm your way into it baby

I don't mean this to be an obtuse answer but, first consideration... make it [i]feel[/i] good. Often overlooked, if it feels great then note choices are less pressurised with the 'must be interesting' notion which can lead to untold fretw***ery in my experience.

As Nigel's cohort in this learning process I have to add that, although some of you are expressing concern about him being too hard on himself, I can assure you that it's just part of his personal process, and will in fact help him reach places he has previously shied from. I will reassure him regularly about his strengths, and he has plenty of them, he has a very wide imagination and open minded approach to music. He just needs a period of programming... Sorry to discuss you so openly Nige, but I'm fairly certain you will be happy for me to.

I think the major point here is about being able to be free with getting ideas and music from your imagination on to your instrument. From a bass playing perspective, in my view, one of the best ways to gain facilities of that nature is to become adept at interpreting a set of changes and being able to play a variety of bass lines to fit them, because eventually that variety becomes wide as your ability to express increases, then you get to choose which is best. In turn one of the best vehicles for learning that process is to become really comfortable with walking bass. If you can create lines of interest, ad infinitum, from changes with 4 notes (crotchets) from one or two (or however many) chords in a bar, then I promise the world will become your oyster when it comes to letting ideas flow. Caveat: it's really easy to kid yourself that you are doing fine with walking lines, the goalposts are always further away than they look.

Thanks for the kind words Nige, although I honestly think that it's down to the enthusiasm of the student. I am merely a facilitator with a lucky knack for being able to word things clearly. I like to try to find what the student is turned on by, that however is not always possible, so I would always recommend that people try a few tutors.

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1372856802' post='2130741'] Jake, thanks for being gentle with me. [/quote] YW [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1372856802' post='2130741'] I think a lot has to do with age and stage. Nobody would say bowing isn't a great thing to do, but if you're not young, you already play bass and you need to get gigging fast without hurting yourself, I suggest there are various roads you can take and the bow could wait for a while. My own experience was that in year one the bow put way too much of a burden on far too quickly, and let's face it Simandl would make anyone quit. A jazz orientated teacher might help to balance things out with you in terms of where the effort goes at different stages. [/quote] I think your reasoning is quite sound, my points are really additional rather than contrary

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1372850907' post='2130615'] I'll get killed for this, but I would say go for someone who actively plays jazz . If they have a classical background all to the good, but don't let them bog you down in bowing Simandl or you'll lose the will to live. / puts tin hat on / [/quote] I'll take you on with my tongue firmly in my cheek.... Any good DB teacher will present classical technical facility as a joy to learn and as a really seriously good background to act as a platform for any style you may choose. My classical training is limited, I mostly teach people jazz stuff on bass, if they want to go further with classical I say find an orchestral player/teacher, but ask any student of mine, I'm a stickler for technique and doing it right, all of which comes from classical tradition, mainly because poor technique is so limiting musically and leaves you prone to injury. Where bowing is concerned, it will give you the best intonation 'nuff said. I basically agree that you want a teacher that can show you things you're interested in, but when taking up DB I think it's worth understanding that what you're getting into first is the instrument... what you can do with it comes a little way along the line. Pete, I have a mate in Stone who I visit from time to time, if you'd like me to let you know when I'm in the area (usually 2 or 3 times a year) I'd be happy to give you one offs. I get good feedback for my lessons, (I'm a bass nerd) so feel free to PM [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/6270-jakesbass-jakesbass-and-thrice-jakesbass/"]http://basschat.co.u...rice-jakesbass/[/url] Also Doddy is in your area, I think he plays upright, failing that there are a few guys in Manchester and I'm sure the same is true of Birmingham. edit... ah just re read your OP re Doddy...

[quote name='mamayo' timestamp='1372449141' post='2125973'] It's also the feel of that Octaves bit and the main melody, timing and touch. :-) So the simpler moments ironically... they're Heavyweight! [/quote] Agreed the reason I like the section I outlined is mainly for the time of it, I know people get put off by the number of notes and I even don't aspire to play that way myself, but there is massive drama, musical interest and searing ability in that passage, he just nails the time of it. In my normal daily appreciation of bass playing I'm much more of a simple and tasteful type of person, but that passage is just dynamite on so many levels.

I think he's one of the greatest improvisors to walk the earth. I guess it's inevitable that such a prolific player should churn out some stuff that even he might call less than his best, but boy are there some gems in his catalogue. I offer you this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM2cdtU2qTg

Thanks both... Nig I'm just glad it makes some sense to you. I love the bass and have been playing it a long time, and it's a nice thing to be able to impart some of my observations and have that chime with the listener. Garry, it's a good point about 'tutors available' being a bit low on the radar down here (as it were) I really am of the view that a bit of tuition is useful to most folk, even if it's just to get up close to someone that has done a lot of work and see it in action, but it's likely that if that person has done some work that they'll be able to impart some nugget that will resonate with the student and go a long way in their development.

1.05 to 1.12 is a bit good innit! bloody hell

Hi Yolanda, welcome aboard Jake

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1371507368' post='2114907'] This is the best MG video on youtube, if not THE best video on youtube full stop: [media]http://youtu.be/E0V4DTfcLDQ[/media] [/quote] Fab! This just shows the extent to which these people are steeped in the tradition of Jazz. If you compare the singing, the bass playing and the harmony instruments to the original recording there is a huge amount of improvisation going on. These guys are jazz players, I know many of you will hate this being pointed out but sorry gents it's the irrefutable truth