OldGit

[quote name='cammymaxwellbass' post='822623' date='Apr 29 2010, 02:27 AM']Interesting thoughts everyone, thanks for taking the time. Seems like we've gone off on a bit of a tangent - become more of a discussion on the pros and cons of feedback.... I think my idea was that anyone who felt that some critique would be helpful could maybe get that by using this forum, maybe one or two have... Ideally it would all be very friendly, after all we're all coming from the same place (next to the drum kit usually!). So even if someone turns up and says "decent but keep practicing" or "that was simply awesome" then at least you have a bass player who's there to see you giving an honest but [i]constructive[/i] comment or two. This isn't about destroying confidence or getting one-up on each other. When I was studying I always wished that my bass teacher would come and check out a gig so he could tell me about how to be a better rhythm section player rather than a solo player. Personally its been a while since anyone's given me a good hauling over the coals - if anyone fancies a free pint or two on a Friday in Glasgow the offers still there. I'd appreciate it even though others might not, each to their own. Cheers everyone, hope someone out there's found this useful. Cammy[/quote] It's a good idea Cammy, and stimulated discussion, even if it was at a tangent.. It's also a way to get more people to your gigs Your point about getting your tutor to asses your group playing raises another interesting tangent. The guitarist in the mixed abled/disabled funk band I play sax in now and then is a guitar tutor by profession. He makes a decent living, pays the mortgage etc... However this is the first band he's ever played in and he's [i]terrible[/i] on stage. He has no idea about presence, dynamics (constantly too quiet!), moving, audience contact etc etc etc. I guess your guy may not feel he can do the band analysis thing either, or maybe you should offer him the hourly rate for his tuition for the gig ....

[quote name='Beedster' post='821927' date='Apr 28 2010, 02:14 PM']Exactly. The case for the defence rests [/quote] +1 As I may have mentioned in other threads about this sort of thing , if you don't entertain people (whatever passes for that in your genre) then it really doesn't matter how well you actually play. Or to put it the other way even a group of very average players can be really entertaining.

[quote name='JTUK' post='821658' date='Apr 28 2010, 11:02 AM']Now, that is a booking policy you'd want to be part of, as people come to that venue because it is known for good bands.[/quote] Yup and that happens all over. As it should. Usually its the venues everyone wants to play as well. Thus they have blaggers in all teh time so they can pick and choose and the punters trust their judgement. That's why some bands can't get a gig even when they have all the stuff, the CD etc, because thy just are not right for the venue. or not right for the available date. Of course now you've had a gig there you can use that as collateral when blagging gigs in other similar places. "oh if they passed the criteria applied by @@@@@ then they will work here a well"...

They've been running an advert for a salesman in BGM for about a year, perhaps there's just no one there ...... or [url="http://www.hellborg.com/"]http://www.hellborg.com/[/url]

[quote name='coop1985' post='821627' date='Apr 28 2010, 10:45 AM']I feel like it's too much hard work in a way. Especially when I plugged the T-bird in an old amp and it was exactly the sound I want! I don't want to sell the Ricky!! I love her... but I suppose, like a woman, if she doesn't put out, then you have to get rid!! lol[/quote] To add my tuppence worth, I used Peavey 1x15 combos for years and always liked the sound - I even bought another ancient one for rock pub gigs. However me and Ashdown just don't work. Maybe you are the same. and ... If yo' woman don't put out, man, you ain't treating her right.

[quote name='arthurhenry' post='822307' date='Apr 28 2010, 06:52 PM']I have a '73 Tele with a too straight neck. No relief at all and the truss rod has been loose for the last four years that I've owned it. Deadish sounding notes up top and horrible buzzing at first four frets. I propose to support it at the neck heel and top of the neck and hang a weight from it. What should I use? Bag of sugar? 5L tin of paint? From where do I hang it? Around 7th fret? Should I apply heat with a hairdryer? Where and for how long? If it shifts will the repair be permanent and do I just tighten the rod until snug? I should add that this bass is very much a spare and I am not too precious about it. It has a cavity routed out for a second (removed) pickup and has been refinished. I just want to get it playing a bit better. Grateful for any advice. Thanks.[/quote] Yeah do all that ... but first .. pop in a shim [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=49897"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=49897[/url]

No bids so you may get it for less...

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='821650' date='Apr 28 2010, 10:57 AM']I have Betty. The name came about because while I was building her I planned on putting a Betty Page decal on her somewhere as a saucy '50s icon. I never got round to it but the name stuck. A lot of my basses are homemade so they do tend to have pet names. My latest is Pingray - the concept was to build a Precision & Stingray combo.[/quote] My Fender has a saucy decal... It's not Betty Page but it looks like it could be her sister, assuming she was a biker chick

Desperate to get this months as the cousin of my Wood & Tronics Ergon is in it... I know it got 4/5 (ha ha of course) but I'm still interested in what they said about it.

[quote name='Bilbo' post='822021' date='Apr 28 2010, 03:13 PM']After reading these magazines for 20 years, I started to see a pattern developing [/quote] See if you were a blues player a pattern would have been obvious after about 2 years. I guess that's the Jazz Mind in action

[quote name='Russ' post='821906' date='Apr 28 2010, 02:05 PM']I think it's because once you've bought the parts and shipped them over from the likes of Warmoth, Allparts, etc, the cost benefits of a parts bass are somewhat eroded. When you've got Jon Shuker, who'll make you a fully custom Jazz for £900, and ordering the Warmoth parts might come to £600 without the cost of assembly or finish, you can see the problem. There is definitely a gap in the market for someone to do this sort of thing though. If someone bought bodies, necks, etc from Warmoth in bulk, there'd be cost savings to be had.[/quote] Well maybe. I've had chats with a couple of guys looking to do this sort of thing, or doing it in the US and looking to sell in the UK. The problem is that very few people will pay anything like the cost of parts plus a decent hourly rate for the man's time when they can wander off down the high street/interweb and buy a perfectly decent Squier Vintage Modified for £250 .... We are so very, very lucky n the UK to have so many basses available from £100 up that any small producer is going to struggle. Oh and I think you'll need nearer to £1500 for a custom Jazz from Jon Shuker these days .. ie the same as a production line Fender American Vintage 62 re-issue Jazz .. Mad isn't it.

Just learning it for a new possible project. It's good fun and moves about a bit so it's not as boring as I thought it might be.

There's several levels being discussed here. Beedster and JTUK (and myself) clearly have the experience to know what they need to do to achieve what they want. I'd suggest that the bands that the OP, TimR and others are talking about don't have that ability and can benefit from good, helpful, candid feedback. Audience feedback is useful for everyone as long as the punter understands the band and what they are trying to do. Otherwise they may just get a version of Miles Davis' famous crushing reply to gushing praise: "So what?" .....

My W&T Ergon is the first one I've ever named ... and I've had a lot of basses over many many years ... It (note, not "she") is called Rossa as it's Italian, very red and as a seriously appreciative nod to my wife who has not complained about the expense once .. Her name is Rossa sometimes too

Beware doing what I did when I first got to college I put up a poster "Bass Player Available" etc etc Some wag crossed out the B and P ......

[quote name='Beedster' post='821052' date='Apr 27 2010, 07:51 PM']Agreed, but I really can't see our music in terms of trying to please the people who don't come to see us. You can't please all of the people [/quote] Fair enough .. See this is why it's imperative to discuss the objectives with the band beforehand

Here you go [url="http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/getsome.org/guitar/olga/chordpro/g/Guns.n.Roses/SweetChildOfMine.chopro"]http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/getsome....ldOfMine.chopro[/url] Just transpose it using the stuff on the right hand side.

[quote name='Beedster' post='820873' date='Apr 27 2010, 05:25 PM']Don't get me wrong mate, I'm all for progressing the band, but what has become increasingly evident is that those who offer advice rarely have much to offer, those who don't often do. I'm sure you and a few others are the exception, but having been involved in several 'peer review' exercises in my time, the idea of such things creeping into live music wholesale makes me want to stop playing. As someone said above, one of the best forms of peer review is punters; numbers, response, satisfaction etc. That's why I said we know where we are, low numbers of poorly satisfied punters. Do I mind? Do I f**k, 'cos I'm playing the music I love, the way I love to play it, and slowly, very slowly, the groove's coming together, and the band and the punters are getting it. We've picked up some good gigs now by sticking to what we set out to do and not listening to all the advice that many people have given us. OK, perhaps we could have been the new Take That. Personally, I'd rather eat my own scrotum C[/quote] It sounds like you are achieving what you want to at the pace you want to. If the whole band is happy about that then you have no problems. The problem with depending on punter reaction as a measure of how well you are doing is that you have no idea why the ones that don't come to see you don't come.

[quote name='paul h' post='820771' date='Apr 27 2010, 04:05 PM']He's top of my list Si but I am concerned he will be too far ensconced in the weird shortscale world to do a parts bass! My plan would be a jap p bass (mmmm, where to get that???) and get Paul to do the mods. Got to get one of those pesky job things first! But of course that is part of what got me thinking about Valenti alternatives. I am sure there would be a market for it. Mind you, I am usually wrong about these things.[/quote] I'm sure someone on here used to do parts bass .. Throught it was Paul but I may be wrong... Getting a J added to a P bass is relatively straightforward for a luthier. ie one with a router. Zero fret might be a challenge. How about a brass nut instead?

[quote name='coop1985' post='820697' date='Apr 27 2010, 02:51 PM']I'm selling a Rickenbacker 4003 to get a P Bass. I haven't had chance to play one yet, but from what I've heard, they are the mutts nuts. The Rickenbacker doesn't quite get the sound that I want. I'm after a really low driving sound that you can feel, rather than the signature Ricky sound. Do you think a P is the right way to go?[/quote] I love the look of Rics but they just don't fit me. (er any more ) So every time I play one the GAS goes away. Certainly don't sell your Ric before strapping on a few P basses .. It coud be a dreadful mistake. Paul Mccartney got a pretty good low driving sound out of his Ric.

[quote name='Beedster' post='820848' date='Apr 27 2010, 04:56 PM']Now that I agree with [/quote] Phew I was thinking I'd have to sneak into your gigs

[quote name='Beedster' post='820816' date='Apr 27 2010, 04:36 PM']LOL, I know my R'n'R history, and I've been around long enough to know how it works, or at least, how it works some of the time. The fact that people were telling them didn't mean they were listening, and your examples, as well you know, are selective in the extreme You bring a clipboard to my gigs, you leave wearing it. Internally Cheers C[/quote] Fair enough The lightbulb has to want to change ... (and need to, of course)

Just read the rest of the thread. I'd like to differentiate the types of feedback. Unsolicited feedback just as you leave the stage is great if it's positive and comes from a nice person in a nice way. Suggestions on how things could be better are not a good idea. I don't do that. If I've been impressed with something about the band I may well say something but I never make negative criticisms of a band on the night, especially if they don't know me. After all I'm just some old git in the gig. The sort of thing I do is pre-planned. It's looking to address a problem the band thinks it has. The band is in agreement and is asking for feedback and help. Before doing anything we discuss the objectives and what they may perceive as problems. I watch them play live with this in mind and give feedback later at a meeting. Not a rehearsal. I'm a trainer and presenter so I know how to give feedback and how to work with a goup of people. It's a positive activity and usually involves chocolate biscuits but I try to avoid anyone getting drunk. We come out of it with a plan, a timescale and a list of things to address and ways to address them. These are made by the band with my guidance. If this sounds like an IT project than that's because they are very simular. If you want results and changes then you have to say what you want and have a way to decide if you are getting it. Yup, that's measurable objectives.... Usually the band is stuck or, like my other consultancy, they know what the problem is but the band as a whole needs an outsider to say it rather than say it themselves and have internal relationship problems as a result. Beedster asks: [i]Why: tricky, why does a person feel the urge to tell someone else what they think of their performance. Again, the best reason is because they're been asked to. How often does this happen? Not very![/i] Not often enough IMHO. And, ofcourse, there are very few people like me around who know what they are talking about, know how to do the analysis and communicate the results and ideas. Also not many experienced musicians give a sh1t about how well other bands do... For me the short answer is I get a kick out of helping a band get to a higher stage of development. Just as I do with the band website stuff I do on here for members, and for free. It's the same sort of thing. So, playing near me? Get your band's agreement and give me a call.

[quote name='Beedster' post='820408' date='Apr 27 2010, 11:00 AM']Yep And to be honest. I kinda know where I, and we, are going wrong, and I'm not sure it's always helpful having someone remind me. And, it's rock 'n roll FFS, there's too much 'feedback' in the world, there's always some prat saying 'can I tell you where I think you can improve', usually with that self satisfied smile s/he learned on a PR course. I can see the bloke at the back of the gig with the clipboard already. If someone had told The Who, Stones, Feelgoods, Buzzcocks ........ Another rant out of the way C[/quote] Yup I have been that guy with the note book ... But Chris, mate, what makes you think the Stones, Who, Beatles and Feelgoods didn't have people tell them what worked and what didn't? The guitar smashing Pete Townshend accidentally started was being talked about in teh Melody Maker, filling halls with interested punters and getting them noticed. Likewise the mod clothes were a marketing gimmick By then their manager was filming shows... Look how polite they are here The Beatles look and performance was all crafted The bands that did well did all that self-analysis and took on the good points others suggested that worked for them. The thousands of also-rans fell by the wayside never to be heard of again. They could have done better had they analysed what the successful people were doing that they could emulate. Lots of young bands are fooled into being crap by this idea that their heroes were just "being themselves" and that if they just "be themselves" they will be successful too. The only reason they have heard of their heroes was because someone spotted the potential and coached and crafted them into a marketing opportunity. Sure it may have been someone in the band but it's just as likely have been a parent, manager or agent, standing at the back of the gig with a note pad (or these days, a video camera.

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